From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, NICE_REPLY_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27423 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2022 10:59:28 -0000 Received: from alyss.skarnet.org (95.142.172.232) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Aug 2022 10:59:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 21660 invoked by uid 89); 4 Aug 2022 10:59:54 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Received: (qmail 21653 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2022 10:59:53 -0000 Message-ID: <192d8d42-dc8d-9b3d-5cc7-93b28eab77d9@rlwinm.de> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 12:59:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Subject: Re: Be prepared for the fall of systemd Content-Language: en-US To: supervision@list.skarnet.org References: <4234078aeca178d4b1b5136a9463617d97cef66b.camel@troubleshooters.com> <75OjPiNdg7k-TrGOB10JwBnln7qJjJRtcsOdg1Dm_gk72TwWJ2Te1njPOEgXz-khoRDvkvqjOfB2kUNj5_iAXtoHivgeGVZwoUzvQod4vIo=@so.dang.cool> <7ee45cee99f3f84093ca674ac5caaf1e6a8b8421.camel@troubleshooters.com> From: Jan Bramkamp In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 04.08.22 11:09, Tanuj Bagaria wrote: > What do we as a community need to do > to get S6 into a "corporate friendly" state? > > What can I do to help? > > > Here are some ideas: > - easier access to the VCS (git, pijul, etc) I would not (yet) consider pijul common and stable enough to count toward that goal. I would recommend we accept that git is the established default VCS for *nix software development for the foreseeable future. Each skaware software project has:   * Its own git repository at https://git.skarnet.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi/$project (with plaintext read-only access at git://git.skarnet.org/$project as well)   * A GitHub mirror are at https://github.com/skarnet/$project. A list of the existing projects is hosted at https://skarnet.org/software/. > - Issue tracking system The the per project mirror GitHub issue trackers aren't disabled and used occasionally, but their use is discouraged [1] (at least for support). Unless someone has a better idea I would recommend using them at least for bug tracking. Here the biggest problem I expect is a drain on Laurent Bercot's time and the biggest help would be for someone to moderate and classify the reports to save preserve developer time. A useful moderator would have to know their technical limitations (when to bump an issue to a developer for further analysis), engage with human users so the project feels "alive" for lack of a better word, help reporters improve their issues to they point they become actionable, tag and assign the issues correctly. Such a post  would require dedication and perseverance in the face or repetitive, thankless work. It would neither require a deep understanding of the implementation nor are most developers a good fit it. It requires its own skillset. > - CI/CD build chain (being careful not to make it too painful to use) Running post-commit s6 and s6-rc regression tests (that don't exist to the best of my knowledge) on several platforms would be enough for cover most of it. > - "idiot proof" website The website is idiot proof in the sense that idiots bounce of it without wasting anyone's time, but their own. It also provides a reference/man page style documentation with a few pages explaining one concepts that could be collected to be easier to discover. > - quick start / getting started guide > - easier access (better?) Documentation That's exactly what missing in my opinion: an introduction/tutorial style documentation to bring down the *very* steep learning curve. It should further explain how the concepts fit together back-referencing how they've already been applied in the tutorials. Enough mechanisms are in place in s6 and s6-rc implement most (sane) policies. The big missing quality of life feature is a safe frontend making dynamic reconfiguration easier. This feature is work in progress [2] and development can probably be accelerated a great deal by throwing enough money at Laurent Bercot enabling him to dedicate more of his time to completing it [3]. [1]: https://github.com/skarnet/s6/issues/31#issuecomment-1079312762 [2]: https://skarnet.org/software/s6-frontend [3]: https://skarnet.com/projects/service-manager.html