From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general/2678 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Schad Newsgroups: gmane.comp.sysutils.skaware,gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general Subject: Re: The "Unix Philosophy 2020" document Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 10:21:13 +0200 Organization: Automatic Server AG Message-ID: <20191013102113.0177ff57@dickeberta> References: <20190831130730.ki6ma7i5curucowe@caspervector> <20190901091157.bjtfhqq6d2rg75yo@CasperVector> <20190927083816.tectynx7dzlfcvb7@CasperVector> <20191012173743.drzlgnrw4hib6hh4@CasperVector> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/QKDlTbOfhzVmygevAqq2ptj"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="267204"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: supervision-cfaJnhaL+FNC7f45DRzWBg@public.gmane.org, skaware-cfaJnhaL+FNC7f45DRzWBg@public.gmane.org, ska-supervision-csDn2i8iPApAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org To: "Casper Ti. Vector" Original-X-From: skaware-return-1356-gcss-skaware=m.gmane.org-cfaJnhaL+FNC7f45DRzWBg@public.gmane.org Sun Oct 13 10:21:26 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcss-skaware@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from alyss.skarnet.org ([95.142.172.232]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iJZ82-0017PZ-0Q for gcss-skaware@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 10:21:26 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 5716 invoked by uid 89); 13 Oct 2019 08:21:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact skaware-help-cfaJnhaL+FNC7f45DRzWBg@public.gmane.org; run by ezmlm Original-Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Original-Received: (qmail 5701 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2019 08:21:50 -0000 In-Reply-To: <20191012173743.drzlgnrw4hib6hh4@CasperVector> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.13.2 (GTK+ 2.24.30; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.sysutils.skaware:422 gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:2678 Archived-At: --Sig_/QKDlTbOfhzVmygevAqq2ptj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Casper, thank you for the effort putting things together. I was asking myself some questions. What is the target group? What is the exact purpose of that document? For systemd I have a more practical approach to discuss: 1) how many config statements are there? 2) how many cases exist, which you have to work around (practical setups, where a config statement is missing or do the wrong thing) 3) how many bugs/feature requests are opened over time and how long does it take to solve them? 4) how big is the memory footprint and for which systems this is too much? 5) how many lines of code? So you would have metrics - especially if you compare them to other solutions. If you want to have more food, make more metrics (call graph complexity or whatever). But there are simple metrics, which shows the result(!) of the design. Talking about the design itself is really a personal opinion otherwise and very lengthy and needs a lot of knowledge to follow. For the philosophy itself there are some parts missing in my opinion: what does that really mean what you're talking about in practical solution? Is there a practical approach anywhere, interface definition, architecture? You describe a few patterns ok - but they are really common. I don't get really, which people would help this document. Maybe that thing is missing: if somebody would like to build a modern UNIX: what are practical steps to achieve it? Which tools, which interfaces (kernel, userland) are needed? Best Regards Oli BTW: I can't really see images inside the PDF --=20 Automatic-Server AG =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Oliver Schad Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer Turnerstrasse 2 9000 St. Gallen | Schweiz www.automatic-server.com | oliver.schad-/Oy7tj6MewwjdV6hOmNGUFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org Tel: +41 71 511 31 11 | Mobile: +41 76 330 03 47 --Sig_/QKDlTbOfhzVmygevAqq2ptj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAl2i3nkACgkQRilxUUuWlvCwawCfeD0BajVvJXUIiXgvyb8aZw7E WUcAn2VqH1q4bTk61kDhXAO+i5iYwEyZ =XJXs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/QKDlTbOfhzVmygevAqq2ptj--