From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general/2746 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steve Litt Newsgroups: gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general Subject: Re: s6 usability Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:10:20 -0500 Message-ID: <20191203171020.2a4e9a92@mydesk.domain.cxm> References: <20191125214342.y7lx5mixrljr6s27@gromit.local> <20191127203307.ohaameqfgncm52h5@gromit.local> <20191129140901.klifpegc74iv4zul@klumpi.ignorelist.com> <20191201214752.2ec0a81b@mydesk.domain.cxm> <337de051-b2b4-4f69-78e7-3f737f40384f@sholland.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="44507"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: supervision@list.skarnet.org Original-X-From: supervision-return-2335-gcsg-supervision=m.gmane.org@list.skarnet.org Tue Dec 03 23:10:29 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from alyss.skarnet.org ([95.142.172.232]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1icGNH-000BQ2-RH for gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2019 23:10:28 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 25384 invoked by uid 89); 3 Dec 2019 22:10:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm Original-Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Original-Received: (qmail 25377 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2019 22:10:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; h=X-Originating-IP:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; s=default; d=troubleshooters.com; b=adpx8CJhpG49JQmcwSppKNCYr7mB93llywmnoH3VlMddn0QNL07/c3LW6edhcajxt6XyqjE6hbS2goe7a3lsCx9Qq+fKEn12Wiet1L+6TfzRASCwgMxQSX2U4jx7Vx9r7yntx85syEkSX4mGMJvCen1vk1/xl7zWAZyDszH7TDs=; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/simple; d=troubleshooters.com; s=default; t=1575411021; bh=w4ReDKFoGJ4xmoQ+NflGIoFgSEU=; l=2345; h=X-Originating-IP:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:X-Mailer:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IczB03RT4zH0iW4XRvv5fge3LlH1Tak7i2Zh/rUvItGY30QnhlNdSsP2snl/BdrR6 g4sidQz9VShnz3vYXNl5VmmDB1j7LngYtEUSZdUGdBJqjUVDUgXU2N/KO3Cho+xQ7n WjapCR3dMO5EpNDy3aaQhG6UbYPVf4V3bBIn4Mu0= X-Originating-IP: [72.188.224.222] In-Reply-To: <337de051-b2b4-4f69-78e7-3f737f40384f@sholland.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:2746 Archived-At: On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 17:17:50 -0600 Samuel Holland wrote: > On 12/2/19 3:32 PM, Laurent Bercot wrote: > >> As a guy who has both daemontools and s6 installed on the same > >> box, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for: > >> > >> 1) Prepending s6- to each command so they don't clash with djb's > >> 2) Except for the s6-, naming them the same as djb's so I have > >> less to remember. > > > > Yes, there are a good number of people, me included, who prefer that > > naming scheme. However, Jan's UX return is valid, and if I want to > > make s6 adoption as easy as possible, it needs to be taken into > > account too. > > From a Linux distribution perspective, there's also the question of > if s6 can be made a drop-in replacement for daemontools, since it > does follow djb's naming scheme. In gentoo, there are various > packages that depend on virtual/daemontools; for example, the > nullmailer test suite uses ipcserver. From a quick comparison of the > documentation, it looks like s6 only adds options, and remains > compatible with the daemontools options. > > So would it be valid/acceptable for a distribution to create > unprefixed symlinks to the s6-* binaries? It looks like this would > mostly only work for the subset of the binaries that implement > daemontools functionality; some others (s6-setsid, s6-sudo) would > have naming conflicts if they were not prefixed. > > Then, with the symlinks, s6 could "provide" virtual/daemontools. > Maybe this would also help discoverability (the issue at hand). Maybe > the inconsistency would cause more harm than good, and the symlinks > should be "for compatibility only". > > Thoughts? In my opinion, 99% of all people currently using daemontools are highly technically proficient and could easily either rename commands or prepath to a directory containing prefixless symlinked synonyms. IMHO if the distro does it, they'll find a way to screw it up. And even if the distro does it right, it will screw that 1 in a million people (like me) who occasionally use daemontools and s6 on the same box, switching between them regularly. Personally, I'd leave well enough alone. SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21