From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general/2772 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jan Braun Newsgroups: gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general Subject: Re: s6 usability Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 02:05:14 +0100 Message-ID: <20191222010514.sklyo7fmo7ftpcxt@klumpi.ignorelist.com> References: <20191125214342.y7lx5mixrljr6s27@gromit.local> <20191127203307.ohaameqfgncm52h5@gromit.local> <20191129140901.klifpegc74iv4zul@klumpi.ignorelist.com> <20191221092639.p5iid3y3csmni4iw@klumpi.ignorelist.com> <20191221211914.GB12551@cathexis.xen.prgmr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="b7ywiudadw72cj6c" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="180928"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: supervision@list.skarnet.org, Laurent Bercot To: Colin Booth Original-X-From: supervision-return-2361-gcsg-supervision=m.gmane.org@list.skarnet.org Sun Dec 22 02:05:34 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from alyss.skarnet.org ([95.142.172.232]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iipgb-000kuZ-Hj for gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2019 02:05:33 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 22675 invoked by uid 89); 22 Dec 2019 01:05:58 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm Original-Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Original-Received: (qmail 22666 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2019 01:05:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1576976715; bh=kagwzUzmXnDYwmk7I/PIlycBw31orc+Usvqu3Mmfx4g=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=ajQFxvEybSYhir8PQ7xigYq8N+BCgB6UgpnMMUfJ4c7RWCZjSGdusSzPXwNrzHwW+ 4GrlZUd6F0N7HjG3sZk7nB4PsUo6EGm+Ua34zQ1hRxhwM1AICGyh0Xn+HEH1OqKjl3 rr1GNDrvhNKPwdD8mq5bT98fxrUyhHaejVG50Fxc= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Mail-Followup-To: Colin Booth , supervision@list.skarnet.org, Laurent Bercot X-GPG-Fingerprint: 1736 D50F 170B 70A6 9223 BC15 295E 703E 6D1D 2FCF X-GPG-Encryption-Welcome: always Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20191221211914.GB12551@cathexis.xen.prgmr.com> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6UPdO9N6wg3Ni4ZYLJPlnVjybgO/ChZWcj+MJYwtyhl2TBbWZ33 DtoqZy5MugeXnXHJqlb9Od5dA9vdsULbcTFhwMhYHmTXDnSn2JeS7r1qtUe4wJdeVTEdSRB ZYOi5mM4TPpC7klsNd2gg4c2duBZ6nhM8Evc00tJJfGcGpSG83JWaHK4+8AUi2AVEVvbRB2 vD4i+Hzz3NJp18aSjHqbg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LNnl52GpqmU=:e9iTNYAhHmwH7muiL8xL5v fdkwtuGuR4lNmcgLKkparABOQgzMuZqkEx90L9kqphyN8RyTrHvBLUS4UYuLszZfY7ctcOJCl VYOPdfGjIEDrkiAcYqPI4WlL5cpuEHW3xDQLpuk6a43OjYbIopnqE5SZVzO3RMFTd016NcCXL S9VrEuWbujleTYf+B8KOLsPmW7d+R4R49hFWBNx6IKKbn4V2o45FAyOMLN7h6k7YPhLDS1UkL p7AOzzWWp23UTSoyLs87IfkMzFtZVr8/2rqmUCxUITFqwhv7I/L/dXqeW8e/VIhjXDnHAN/OU G7Iocvp99vFPyaKaELqcXKKiW+cJvAAIVz/aAYaXPQvdzsDf+1MHt6WoeV7Odcm+dKUr4YwXy MVzSrwuJnTTSXfX617xTs4Gw/+weneVEcdD31YdA3vQfuY0d8tvjCd00kS0vSqryZup2hFL1E Jr4qGPtCph042bsMBx++0v7ks7VyFWMVTyHXFT8Msv4AejEKwwbBFgoVnSijx/xusACqUkAzp 1UWAXgtOXOTEXWGoQUo+L5Th6GvEo0rT6sHauJFy8K3r1vsttWaGQDfgZtL5p/h+sNe7eUHGC cett2+4J7kPXuu/EqiEFmTMJtQOLdPNH8d/p+Ew9LZqzaInc5iIgPTbeeYWVnkpFzGHbK71yK 9OkBq8KdPDB7qOpGL2me+8KLRZVTXxPKOaB217saAGhVl1EqL/7iP/DFhRRJKbA3/hs3YHLMP IMVQCytKzyx2vmAxMIYd7GOLclt8qCwXHmkX3pmjH0CbT12gtjk6YP8vcjTIxfyOLSMXQHzl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:2772 Archived-At: --b7ywiudadw72cj6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colin Booth schrob: > > If you're referring to > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D906250#37 > > then, well, you are fighting against POSIX. There's little choice for > > Debian in the matter. Taking a hardline stance on such "legal" issues is > > part of their identity as a distro. > > > It doesn't help that neither Adam nor Jakub read the documentation for > the execline equivalents for cd, umask, or wait. Why would you say that? They effectively only claim that execline's cd/umask/wait binaries don't conform to the POSIX specification for cd/umask/wait. And I think that's uncontroversally true. > That or they don't know what 'execs into' means. POSIX requires: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap01.html#t= ag_17_06 | However, all of the standard utilities, including the regular built-ins | in the table, [...] shall be implemented in a manner so that they can be | accessed via the exec family of functions as defined in the System | Interfaces volume of POSIX.1-2008 and can be invoked directly by those | standard utilities that require it (env, find, nice, nohup, time, | xargs). i.e, if you call execvp("cd", "cd", /* any other args, */ NULL); , POSIX says you MUST get the behaviour documented at https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/cd.html =2E And if /bin/cd is execline's cd, then you don't. There's also the imho sensible rationale of e.g. | find . -type d -exec cd {} \; -exec foo {} \; | (which invokes "foo" on accessible directories) for that requirement, even if these are admittedly rare cases. See Message-ID: here on the list, from Jonathan de Boyne Pollard for more details. > Within the context of a shell the builtin will always* take precedence. True, but not the controversial issue. > [placing binaries] > Have you ever considered slashpackage ;) >=20 > In all seriousness though this, with the exception of dropping the s6- > prefix (and the prefix-appender binary I guess), is what slashpackage > does. /bin stays uncluttered, commands end up in a PATH-able place, and > if you want to surprise any systemic shell scripts you have you can > symlink in replacements to the default PATH.=20 Yes, I'm aware of that. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a unix distro usable for my general needs implementing /package as their packaging scheme. Nix/NixOS does something similar, and is on the short list of distros I'll consider if Debian goes ahead with the systemd madness. And FWIW, if I were to create my own distro/OS, I'd do away with $PATH entirely and have people union-mount stuff into /bin . > > P.S: I stumbled over this execline oddity: > > | dollarat -0 -d a # separates by \0 > > | forbacktickx -0 -d a var {gen...} loop... # splits on a > > IMHO, both should be an error, but at least treat them the same. > > > As per the docs for forbacktickx: > -0 : accept null characters from gen's output, using them as delimiters. > If this option and a -d option are used simultaneously, the rightmost > one wins. Yes, and as per the docs for dollarat: -0 : use the null character as separator. Any -d argument will be ignored. They're both working as advertised. But they have *different* rules for resolving the case where both -0 and -d are given. I think that's a lack of UI consistency, and would consider it a bug in my software. (And, as I said, I think the best response to getting both -0 and -d would be erroring out, but that's just an aside.) cheers, Jan --b7ywiudadw72cj6c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEFzbVDxcLcKaSI7wVKV5wPm0dL88FAl3+wUYACgkQKV5wPm0d L89rTA/+OiT2F2pK+HM4LH9wVkoylfaCeoUl+okCB4XNlx4OPIjGQoY2mqterUYm 636mjnuPGLuWQ+mKjNkaSGpmuVhRrZIvtPGMP+gKldIx4Am5ASYOUAnFuwJkkYow 4mtjBVnHpL8tWCkg4VoLzqZcfftVui5H1rcYgtfQ2vumZ3cgXw7J38YwNPR0qY96 pHa9wgBMpo7g8pUpjjDs+4e/Uhq2XCeagkJ4gT+9FO2wmGZxU/gnMq7SphIbNVob LSiShHu27kDwDUczn2BuDgFRFkdPXOMU37Z3l23Q5YhcYshcV/bVMbjbhSH2YpCc rA39K1el5ByP24krL+NkHccy1VbaMOi1IAYmlWd1YAVhGrS4yA2GMu1I9KtMp6uB CyOfd0YPpLpQXRQRmznksx7cPwN/rQ/XQlUwG0JzJEKRg6/MFZ50gF8zr5DgbH01 Ih/R77S7CdXmr0iIRj5ByxdYzvfwRPSaheZvkQez8aQzH9fX7arOkfordSB5m5Zt QrkREPUxcB7xYAeOh8BDWYP+qJ+LM9ZAMdGw/OvZCOkGcJd8bRkKgeV/lSJq+F61 C69i+tuo6Dr0mrt+pT6WMl8Iv7bDpa9FbgL2PbrL0clQl2u4a0PXcG3PHrIGabzc 9l3zFTG36S1eTI8q3qfW8JBvfGCPGRf7q0RAakt5Y+HUIC6sM6w= =g/vO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --b7ywiudadw72cj6c--