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* s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah!
@ 2020-11-04 11:01 Oliver Schad
  2020-11-04 11:15 ` Dreamcat4
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Oliver Schad @ 2020-11-04 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: supervision

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Hi everybody,

we're proud to announce, that we have s6 in production in context of
platform as a service for our customers.

We started with the rollout on our container hypervisors and will
extend that to all of our LXC containers.

We use Ubuntu 16 for now and will migrate that to Ubuntu 20. The reasons
we use that distro is, are some:

- good package support from community
- canonical maintains LXC/LXD
- co-maintainers of ZFS

So these are important reasons for us to stay on Ubuntu.

Thanks Laurent for supporting us to develop the integration of s6 in
ubuntu 16 and 20. We can definitly recommend to engage Laurent for
integration questions.

The reasons to migrate away from systemd are well known but to recap
that in short:

- buggy
- bad support from development team (go-away mentality)
- over complex in every dimension
- really limited cause of DSL/config approach and really big config
  language at the same time - more than 200 config statements - have
  fun to know them all
- tries to enforce itself everywhere as dependency
- linux only
- tightly bundled to kernel interfaces, which might be dangerous in
  container business (container's systemd might depend on specific
  kernel interfaces of the host)
- cgroup massacre (mi-mi-mi that is my cgroup and nobody else is
  allowed to use it)

And I guess some more. The pain we had with systemd, journald and so on
was too much.

Best Regards
Oli

-- 
Automatic-Server AG •••••
Oliver Schad
Geschäftsführer
Turnerstrasse 2
9000 St. Gallen | Schweiz

www.automatic-server.com | oliver.schad@automatic-server.com
Tel: +41 71 511 31 11 | Mobile: +41 76 330 03 47

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah!
  2020-11-04 11:01 s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah! Oliver Schad
@ 2020-11-04 11:15 ` Dreamcat4
  2020-11-04 17:37 ` Steve Litt
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Dreamcat4 @ 2020-11-04 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Oliver Schad; +Cc: supervision

Yep. Have been using s6-overlay inside docker containers. On top of
the ubuntu 20.04 base image. It works well enough...

Perhaps you could speak to some Canonical people about your usage of
s6? Maybe it would be helpful to them, in some broader sense? Like to
be a little bit less reliant upon systemd?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:01 AM Oliver Schad
<oliver.schad@automatic-server.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> we're proud to announce, that we have s6 in production in context of
> platform as a service for our customers.
>
> We started with the rollout on our container hypervisors and will
> extend that to all of our LXC containers.
>
> We use Ubuntu 16 for now and will migrate that to Ubuntu 20. The reasons
> we use that distro is, are some:
>
> - good package support from community
> - canonical maintains LXC/LXD
> - co-maintainers of ZFS
>
> So these are important reasons for us to stay on Ubuntu.
>
> Thanks Laurent for supporting us to develop the integration of s6 in
> ubuntu 16 and 20. We can definitly recommend to engage Laurent for
> integration questions.
>
> The reasons to migrate away from systemd are well known but to recap
> that in short:
>
> - buggy
> - bad support from development team (go-away mentality)
> - over complex in every dimension
> - really limited cause of DSL/config approach and really big config
>   language at the same time - more than 200 config statements - have
>   fun to know them all
> - tries to enforce itself everywhere as dependency
> - linux only
> - tightly bundled to kernel interfaces, which might be dangerous in
>   container business (container's systemd might depend on specific
>   kernel interfaces of the host)
> - cgroup massacre (mi-mi-mi that is my cgroup and nobody else is
>   allowed to use it)
>
> And I guess some more. The pain we had with systemd, journald and so on
> was too much.
>
> Best Regards
> Oli
>
> --
> Automatic-Server AG •••••
> Oliver Schad
> Geschäftsführer
> Turnerstrasse 2
> 9000 St. Gallen | Schweiz
>
> www.automatic-server.com | oliver.schad@automatic-server.com
> Tel: +41 71 511 31 11 | Mobile: +41 76 330 03 47

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah!
  2020-11-04 11:01 s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah! Oliver Schad
  2020-11-04 11:15 ` Dreamcat4
@ 2020-11-04 17:37 ` Steve Litt
  2020-11-04 17:37 ` Laurent Bercot
  2020-11-04 17:38 ` Steve Litt
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Steve Litt @ 2020-11-04 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: supervision

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:01:11 +0100
Oliver Schad <oliver.schad@automatic-server.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> we're proud to announce, that we have s6 in production in context of
> platform as a service for our customers.

       *     *
        \ o /
         \|/ 
          |       C O O L
         / \  _  
        /   \/
       /
      -


Thank you Oliver!

Will the s6 package be available for just plain Ubuntu 16 and Ubuntu 20?

If so, when?

As soon as it's available on metal installable Ubuntu, I'll try it out.
If it works well, I'll use it for my qemu and gnome-boxes VMs. Also, an
upcoming business requirement might require me to boot to a thumb
drive. If Ubuntu with s6 works well, I'll use that on my bootable thumb
drive.

Thanks so much!

And thanks also to Laurent!

This just might be wonderful.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah!
  2020-11-04 11:01 s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah! Oliver Schad
  2020-11-04 11:15 ` Dreamcat4
  2020-11-04 17:37 ` Steve Litt
@ 2020-11-04 17:37 ` Laurent Bercot
  2020-11-04 17:38 ` Steve Litt
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Laurent Bercot @ 2020-11-04 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Oliver Schad, supervision

>we're proud to announce, that we have s6 in production in context of
>platform as a service for our customers.

  That's awesome! Glad it's working, and thanks for your return!


>Thanks Laurent for supporting us to develop the integration of s6 in
>ubuntu 16 and 20. We can definitly recommend to engage Laurent for
>integration questions.

  The pleasure was mine :)

--
  Laurent


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah!
  2020-11-04 11:01 s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah! Oliver Schad
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-11-04 17:37 ` Laurent Bercot
@ 2020-11-04 17:38 ` Steve Litt
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Steve Litt @ 2020-11-04 17:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: supervision

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:01:11 +0100
Oliver Schad <oliver.schad@automatic-server.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> we're proud to announce, that we have s6 in production in context of
> platform as a service for our customers.

LOL, NOW I understand why you kept asking how s6 does all these systemd
actions. :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-11-04 17:38 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-11-04 11:01 s6 in production on Ubuntu - yeah! Oliver Schad
2020-11-04 11:15 ` Dreamcat4
2020-11-04 17:37 ` Steve Litt
2020-11-04 17:37 ` Laurent Bercot
2020-11-04 17:38 ` Steve Litt

supervision - discussion about system services, daemon supervision, init, runlevel management, and tools such as s6 and runit

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