From: Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family>
To: Laurent Bercot <ska-supervision@skarnet.org>
Cc: supervision@list.skarnet.org
Subject: Re: s6-rc user experience question
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 08:43:28 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20221017154328.xcf35bdlabow6bjo@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <em65561c96-25a9-4012-8d1b-88060c37b61d@56081f05.com>
On 2022-10-17 13:11, Laurent Bercot wrote:
>
> No, because these are operations that are ideally done at different
> times.
> - Compilation happens "offline", before you (re)boot the machine.
> - s6-svscan is run independently from s6-rc, typically very early
> during the boot sequence. (Ideally it's process 1.) In any case the
> preexistence of a supervision tree is assumed by s6-rc, so spawning
> one as part of an s6-rc command isn't good workflow.
> - Initialization happens when the service manager is ready to run,
> which means when the machine is online and already has an s6-svscan
> running.
I understand that these tools are executed at different times and we
want to make long-lived daemons as small as possible, that only do one
job. Perhaps a higher-level orchestration tool(s) is/are needed, that
will accomplish most typical workflows like:
- make changes in source -> complie -> switch symlink to latest compiled snapshot ->
s6-rc-update. In systmd world this is easier: edit -> systemd
daemon-reload
- list running services, start/stop them etc.
- auto-generating cooresponding logger service for a service. Today it
is mostly a copy-paste job and incompatible with vanilla svcscan
./log/run subdir approach, which is confusing on its own.
Another set of reasons for a high-level utility is better UX:
- today users have to interact with multiple binaries and remember all
their names, cli flags and positional parameters.
- there are no manual pages that would help with the point above, and
short help messages are not very useful. ( I often resort to reading
https://skarnet.org/software/s6 from my browser )
- CLI interface of those binaries is not very intuitive, and there are
no long options to improve readability in scripts.
Example: It is very hard to remember what this actually means
s6-log -d3 -- t s16777216 n64 /var/log/mysvc
I would much prefer something like this for all utilities, in
addition to short options
s6-log --notification-fd 3
--num-files 64
--filesize 16777216
--timestamp tai64
/var/log/mysvc
If changing CLI interface of s6 toolchest is not something that you
consider then a higher-level orchestration tool can take away some these
pains
> However, there's a change I can make that would immediately improve
> s6-rc's usability: since it's largely a perception issue, changing
> the vocabulary from "s6-rc-compile" to "s6-rc-snapshot" and
> "compiled database" to "opaque snapshot of the set of services" would
> be a good idea. It would spook fewer people, and send fewer people
> into red herring trains of thoughts. :)
If compiled snapshot was an opaque file, instead of a directory that
would indeed make the perception a bit better
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-17 15:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-16 6:28 Ihor Antonov
2022-10-16 10:39 ` Laurent Bercot
2022-10-16 16:02 ` Ihor Antonov
2022-10-17 13:11 ` Laurent Bercot
2022-10-17 15:43 ` Ihor Antonov [this message]
2022-10-17 21:32 ` Laurent Bercot
2022-10-18 1:13 ` Alexis
2022-10-18 3:14 ` Ihor Antonov
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20221017154328.xcf35bdlabow6bjo@localhost \
--to=ihor@antonovs.family \
--cc=ska-supervision@skarnet.org \
--cc=supervision@list.skarnet.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).