Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Lloyd Zusman]

I have some questions about the Debian/Ubuntu runit package.

Does anyone know how much of a time lag there usually is between the
release of a new runit-x.y.z.tar.gz on the runit web site and the
updates of the Debian and Ubuntu apt packages for the same software?

I'm wondering if it's worth blowing away my tar.gz installation of runit
on my Ubuntu machine and redoing it via apt.

Also, will an apt installation use different install directories than
the default tar.gz build?

If the directory structure of the installed software is the same for
both types of installations, then I wouldn't need to blow anything away
before re-installing from apt.

And finally, one more question: I know that the runit apt package
doesn't replace init, but I can't tell whether it installs itself into
inittab as described on the "runit - use with traditional init" web
page.  Does it do so?

Thanks in advance for any info you folks can give me about all this.


-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com
 God bless you.

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Gerrit Pape]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 05:14:15PM -0500, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> I have some questions about the Debian/Ubuntu runit package.
> 
> Does anyone know how much of a time lag there usually is between the
> release of a new runit-x.y.z.tar.gz on the runit web site and the
> updates of the Debian and Ubuntu apt packages for the same software?

I don't know about ubuntu, but the Debian package I maintain myself.
Normally it's available in Debian/sid nearly at the same time as the
tarball, as long as we're not preparing a new release, and the current
Debian/testing isn't frozen.

> I'm wondering if it's worth blowing away my tar.gz installation of runit
> on my Ubuntu machine and redoing it via apt.

Using the Debian packages helps with dependencies, there're some *-run
packages that automatically set up runit services, and depend on the
runit package (e.g. socklog-run, bincimap-run, bcron-run, ...).

> Also, will an apt installation use different install directories than
> the default tar.gz build?

As Debian adheres to the FHS, it doesn't install into the /package/
hierarchy, but into /sbin/, /usr/bin/, ...

> If the directory structure of the installed software is the same for
> both types of installations, then I wouldn't need to blow anything away
> before re-installing from apt.
> 
> And finally, one more question: I know that the runit apt package
> doesn't replace init, but I can't tell whether it installs itself into
> inittab as described on the "runit - use with traditional init" web
> page.  Does it do so?

Yes it does, and for replacing sysvinit, there's the runit-run package,
try
 $ apt-cache show runit-run

Regards, Gerrit.

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Paul Jarc]

Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> wrote:
> As Debian adheres to the FHS, it doesn't install into the /package/
> hierarchy, but into /sbin/, /usr/bin/, ...

Does Debian's policy prohibit symlinks that would allow both
traditional and /package paths to work?


paul

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 12:36:17PM -0500, Paul Jarc wrote:
> Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> wrote:
> > As Debian adheres to the FHS, it doesn't install into the /package/
> > hierarchy, but into /sbin/, /usr/bin/, ...
> 
> Does Debian's policy prohibit symlinks that would allow both
> traditional and /package paths to work?

Unfortunately yes.  It's not that I personally like the strict
commitment to the FHS, but the majority of Debian developers do, it
seems.

Regards, Gerrit.

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 05:14:15PM -0500, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> I have some questions about the Debian/Ubuntu runit package.
>> 
>> Does anyone know how much of a time lag there usually is between the
>> release of a new runit-x.y.z.tar.gz on the runit web site and the
>> updates of the Debian and Ubuntu apt packages for the same software?
>
> I don't know about ubuntu, but the Debian package I maintain myself.
> Normally it's available in Debian/sid nearly at the same time as the
> tarball, as long as we're not preparing a new release, and the current
> Debian/testing isn't frozen.
>
> [ ... ]

Thank you for answering all my questions.  This is exactly the
information I was looking for.


>> And finally, one more question: I know that the runit apt package
>> doesn't replace init, but I can't tell whether it installs itself into
>> inittab as described on the "runit - use with traditional init" web
>> page.  Does it do so?
>
> Yes it does, and for replacing sysvinit, there's the runit-run package,
> try
>  $ apt-cache show runit-run

Yep, I know about runit-run, but "apt-cache show runit" doesn't state
whether or not runit installs itself into inittab.  Could that perhaps
be briefly mentioned in a future release of those docs?


Actually, this brings up a related question.  Assuming for the moment
that Ubuntu functions the same as Debian, how many of the seven steps
described in the "Replacing sysvinit (GNU/Linux)" section of the "runit
- replacing init" page of the official docs will be automatically
performed on a well-configured Debian/Ubuntu during an "apt-get install
runit-run"?

In other words, after installing runit-run in this manner, will I still
have to manually convert some /etc/init.d scripts to be runit-based
before I reboot?

Thanks again.


-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com
 God bless you.

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Gerrit Pape]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 05:24:09PM -0500, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> writes:
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 05:14:15PM -0500, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> >> And finally, one more question: I know that the runit apt package
> >> doesn't replace init, but I can't tell whether it installs itself into
> >> inittab as described on the "runit - use with traditional init" web
> >> page.  Does it do so?
> >
> > Yes it does, and for replacing sysvinit, there's the runit-run package,
> > try
> >  $ apt-cache show runit-run
> 
> Yep, I know about runit-run, but "apt-cache show runit" doesn't state
> whether or not runit installs itself into inittab.  Could that perhaps
> be briefly mentioned in a future release of those docs?

This currently is documented in /usr/share/doc/runit/README.Debian, but
I can add it to the package description also.

> Actually, this brings up a related question.  Assuming for the moment
> that Ubuntu functions the same as Debian, how many of the seven steps
> described in the "Replacing sysvinit (GNU/Linux)" section of the "runit
> - replacing init" page of the official docs will be automatically
> performed on a well-configured Debian/Ubuntu during an "apt-get install
> runit-run"?

See /usr/share/doc/runit-run/README.Debian, it does all but the
service migration, and the final reboot.

> In other words, after installing runit-run in this manner, will I still
> have to manually convert some /etc/init.d scripts to be runit-based
> before I reboot?

Debian services that are integrated into sysvinit are disabled by
default, and need to be converted manually if they should run by
default; the runit-run package enables a getty service, and additionally
takes care that the packages' init scripts aren't run automatically on
package installation/upgrade/remove through the policy-rc.d interface.

To ease service migration on Debian, I'm in the progress of creating a
runit-services package that includes service directories for some
services, see
 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330029

Help's always welcome ;-).

Regards, Gerrit.

Re: Debian/Ubuntu apt package instead of tar.gz?

[Lloyd Zusman]

Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> writes:

> On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 05:24:09PM -0500, Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> Gerrit Pape <pape@smarden.org> writes:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> Yep, I know about runit-run, but "apt-cache show runit" doesn't state
>> whether or not runit installs itself into inittab.  Could that perhaps
>> be briefly mentioned in a future release of those docs?
>
> This currently is documented in /usr/share/doc/runit/README.Debian, but
> I can add it to the package description also.

But don't I have to install runit through the dpkg system before I can
read this README.Debian file?  I'd like to know whether runit installs
itself into inittab _before_ installing, so I can take care of any
preparations beforehand (recall that I already have the .tar.gz version
installed, and I need to know how much of that to back out before
installing the dpkg version).  Or am I missing something about dpkg?


>> Actually, this brings up a related question.  Assuming for the moment
>> that Ubuntu functions the same as Debian, how many of the seven steps
>> [ ... ] will be automatically
>> performed on a well-configured Debian/Ubuntu during an "apt-get install
>> runit-run"?
>
> See /usr/share/doc/runit-run/README.Debian, it does all but the
> service migration, and the final reboot.

Same comment as above: I don't want to read this _after_ I install
runit-run ... I'd like to know how the install will affect my existing
sysvinit daemons before I decide to issue an "apt-get install" for it.


>> [ ... ]
>
> Debian services that are integrated into sysvinit are disabled by
> default, and need to be converted manually if they should run by
> default; the runit-run package enables a getty service, and additionally
> takes care that the packages' init scripts aren't run automatically on
> package installation/upgrade/remove through the policy-rc.d interface.
>
> To ease service migration on Debian, I'm in the progress of creating a
> runit-services package that includes service directories for some
> services, see
>  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330029
>
> Help's always welcome ;-).

I wish I had more spare time :(

Hmm ... it occurs to me that the following might be useful:

What if on an installation of runit-run, a special runit-based service
was installed that would do the equivalent of "/etc/init.d/rc N" where N
varies from 0 to 6? ... at least for everything but that single
getty. This way, after installation, we would still have a usable
system, and we could then convert our sysvinit daemons at our leisure to
be runit-based.

Thoughts?


-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz@asfast.com
 God bless you.