From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general/512 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jared Rhine Newsgroups: gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general Subject: svlogd localtime option Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 01:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: <87u0whk2qk.wl@badger.wordzoo.com> References: <871xjvo66s.wl@badger.wordzoo.com> <20040704054801.5939.qmail@f950a45d36ced0.315fe32.mid.smarden.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.4 - "Hosorogi") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1089361457 21564 80.91.224.253 (9 Jul 2004 08:24:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 08:24:17 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: supervision-return-750-gcsg-supervision=m.gmane.org@list.skarnet.org Fri Jul 09 10:24:08 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from antah.skarnet.org ([212.85.147.14]) by deer.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Biqfv-0006Yy-00 for ; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 10:24:07 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 7235 invoked by uid 76); 9 Jul 2004 08:24:28 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: Original-Received: (qmail 7229 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 08:24:28 -0000 Original-To: supervision@list.skarnet.org In-Reply-To: <20040704054801.5939.qmail@f950a45d36ced0.315fe32.mid.smarden.org> Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:512 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:512 Jared> Would there be resistance to having [svlogd] be really useful by Jared> supporting a -ttt which uses localtime? [...] I appreciate Jared> that UTC-based servers are useful... Gerrit> Using TAI or UTC has the great advantage that logs are Gerrit> sortable after merging, this is not guaranteed when using Gerrit> localtime. As mentioned, I understand that UTC has advantages. With mutual respect as professionals, I disagree with that characterization of "great advantage" though, especially in comparsion to the disadvantages. The disadvantages hit me every single day, whereas I've never once wanted to do a simple log merge in 10 years across dozens (hundreds?) of servers. When I do, it's always script-mediated and my localtime can easily be transformed back into UTC or TAI64n specifically for that purpose (though that's not how I do it). Why is UTC there at all? TAI64n has some minor advantages over even UTC, so why don't we force everyone to pipe everytime? Presumably to save some humans some time. It simply seems wise to support the common use case, which is maybe 95% browsing, 4% archiving, and 1% merging. Instead, I should need to incorporate a pipeline for 99+% of the times I use the file, instead of the <1% of the time I need to merge? And cause extra work every time I'm grepping, opening in an editor, etc. Of course I can construct command lines pipes and aliases to work around the problem. I just don't see why I'm working around it all. Gerrit> I think it's better to let the pager used to display logs do Gerrit> such jobs. Fair enough. But reasonable people can disagree on methods and practices, and not everyone uses a pager for browsing. This one single issue is the sole gripe about the functionality of runit. It's trivial for me to substitute gmtime with localtime, and my latest installs are working great like that. But now I'm maintaining a fork, which seems silly for such a small (and useful!) change. But if such an enhancement would be rejected on design grounds, it's important enough for me to do so. I'd rather put that time into a patch that would be accepted; Charlie> Ambiguous times in log files are not such a good idea. I'm a big boy; I'd prefer the rope to hang myself. I'm just asking for a switch that's maybe a couple lines of code, not to bring down the entire sysadmin community with my wicked ways :) Anyway, that's my pitch. I tried to state it as strongly as I politely can. Still your call on the design/patch acceptance issue of course. -- jared@wordzoo.com War is God's way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce