From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14368 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2022 09:09:30 -0000 Received: from alyss.skarnet.org (95.142.172.232) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Aug 2022 09:09:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 17770 invoked by uid 89); 4 Aug 2022 09:09:56 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Received: (qmail 17763 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2022 09:09:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=gIfZGTjlv9ZPrYggz8nzjSUFojSVoXsg90rHaA/s0c4=; b=aJu6W7nVgRDNLrtMeDRuPSzhRZWXMUyeWBQFNVuIR7mSrm0xwJ5zvP3Yjqr8ClXp+Y 18dzznYL9bMIepznXigfTRAiYlAaXMFbY0dOzqRDZTCzzYlK+YsBNyMgnkzw19N1JT1S PEhAWw6KAKZHm27UgzoibCyz1r2+HWt/uD7HM6Ng2uZ3LaJlVlgB2BlqISYW9ggyYs3c LvxdvhzDCDHwIeI2vKnLr6FQQrgQx3Nk0DjIBlDfI7KMGAIxcZtgCR5AyMBVIPKdY+uX Two1L02HhhlUD68blhQ/1yMiMQdg3rbGbGMr+ic5mXOL9cRt/TEWmO7d85qH1TYUusjJ we2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=gIfZGTjlv9ZPrYggz8nzjSUFojSVoXsg90rHaA/s0c4=; b=jIBrw32dbOD/FW57jWfK5/ui2kspSkdVzN0X2RLM2+Ra+N7LuWL4h4FHcmED6XI6CK 5umqGueSHbVmfmOkdDUPGQ9VVYWMDE9lZ1HEB//iJxhZ793DDTxbgHvgeHU9PEQIgKsX cBG1FPGsavi7zDdSiR5FvbsNgi9D2XZ/er5S4g2W/GV/nJ1MiYD3rFsM+uKeN7qASFzc 4Em9u93q5X76qG8+bWF8VLSHKuYLLZCMjuYy0LweCFevD3ttt1YREQDwRoHX+3mKnKtK 3uIE5LjM8oVJG0Ck0FHl0L/aWeMFX1tlIifDk8i3GDb1IHLZljK/0aIPlBC4a0TClkc9 pyCA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2JtLyLfUlYmXbT+0Dd3+urHB6HncBKt+2xGS6nVr2HwdEdrYRa O+EVKwv6ISFd5Y6gHdka7n2T1Yyz1TIuasXS7R67+Ptd X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4qg7CrL9mSo5KZdAUoFX4XjJXuSPg8e6v30Hj27Ow0k+xSMYzwr+fUSQp9+hNILmAYbvgQx/jsP8sLU5G6APM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:ef90:b0:730:9d18:17b3 with SMTP id ze16-20020a170906ef9000b007309d1817b3mr738321ejb.141.1659604168511; Thu, 04 Aug 2022 02:09:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4234078aeca178d4b1b5136a9463617d97cef66b.camel@troubleshooters.com> <75OjPiNdg7k-TrGOB10JwBnln7qJjJRtcsOdg1Dm_gk72TwWJ2Te1njPOEgXz-khoRDvkvqjOfB2kUNj5_iAXtoHivgeGVZwoUzvQod4vIo=@so.dang.cool> <7ee45cee99f3f84093ca674ac5caaf1e6a8b8421.camel@troubleshooters.com> In-Reply-To: <7ee45cee99f3f84093ca674ac5caaf1e6a8b8421.camel@troubleshooters.com> From: Tanuj Bagaria Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 10:09:18 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Be prepared for the fall of systemd To: Steve Litt Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org, supervision@list.skarnet.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ee94dc05e566b49b" --000000000000ee94dc05e566b49b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" What do we as a community need to do to get S6 into a "corporate friendly" state? What can I do to help? Here are some ideas: - easier access to the VCS (git, pijul, etc) - Issue tracking system - CI/CD build chain (being careful not to make it too painful to use) - "idiot proof" website - quick start / getting started guide - easier access (better?) Documentation On Thu, 4 Aug 2022, 09:21 Steve Litt, wrote: > On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 17:19 +0000, J.R. Hill wrote: > > There are a few things that need to be in place for a smooth transition. > > > > For general trust in the project... > > > > 1. the init system itself should be maintained by more than a single > human. > > This hasn't been the case with runit. It's so darn simple people *do* > trust it, even > though it was written by one guy and he stepped away. > > > 2. the maintainers should be willing to respond to a large audience. (If > a project > > is used widely across distributions and is critical to operation and > security, > > it'll attract attention from armies of newbies and large cloud > corporations > > alike.) This means there needs to be an ability to move slow (maintain > backwards > > compatibility) and also to move fast (in security situations) > > True. All I can say is runit does one thing and does it well, appears to > have no > known security flaws, has a small attack surface, so there's little call > for > updates. > > > 3. the project should be available from some trusted platform with > versioning and > > source history. > > > > For ease of transition... > > > > 4. many init scripts need to exist, or they need to be trivial to write. > > The originator of runit gives many example scripts, AND they are trivial > to write. > See http://smarden.org/runit/runscripts.html . > > > > > > I'll give some thoughts on runit: > > > > I'll start by saying that I've used Void linux for a few years now, and > I love > > using runit. It's simple, it works, and it's understandable. That's the > opposite > > of my experience with systemd. I'm not passionately against systemd (or > the > > developers, or RedHat, or even IBM), and I think systemd is technically > impressive > > and ambitious. But also I don't really want to use it or anything like > it. > > > > > It's maintained by the Void Linux project... > > > > Unfortunately I don't think this is true. It's used by Void, but we're > packaging > > it by building from the source tarball like anyone else. > > I guess what I meant was https://github.com/void-linux/runit . That's the > source > code, maintained by the Void Linux project, and it's up to individual > distros to > package it for their distro. > > SteveT > --000000000000ee94dc05e566b49b--