From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general/2363 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Laurent Bercot" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general Subject: Re: [Announce] s6.rc: a distribution-friendly init/rc framework Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:19:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180322132334.GA11596@caspervector> <20180323040022.GA1737@caspervector> <20180323130553.GA15552@latitude.localdomain> Reply-To: "Laurent Bercot" NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1521814631 31409 195.159.176.226 (23 Mar 2018 14:17:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:17:11 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: eM_Client/7.1.31849.0 To: supervision@list.skarnet.org Original-X-From: supervision-return-1954-gcsg-supervision=m.gmane.org@list.skarnet.org Fri Mar 23 15:17:07 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from alyss.skarnet.org ([95.142.172.232]) by blaine.gmane.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ezNVD-00083x-BV for gcsg-supervision@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:17:07 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 17727 invoked by uid 89); 23 Mar 2018 14:19:40 -0000 Mailing-List: contact supervision-help@list.skarnet.org; run by ezmlm Original-Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Original-Received: (qmail 17720 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2018 14:19:40 -0000 In-Reply-To: <20180323130553.GA15552@latitude.localdomain> X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtgedrvddugdeivdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfpfgfogfftkfevteeunffgpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfgjfhhrfgggtgfgsehtqhertddtreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfnfgruhhrvghnthcuuegvrhgtohhtfdcuoehskhgrqdhsuhhpvghrvhhishhiohhnsehskhgrrhhnvghtrdhorhhgqeenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.sysutils.supervision.general:2363 Archived-At: >In their defence, I don't think any mainstream distribution makes this >kind of modifications easy. IMO it's safe to assume a new init system >means a new distribution (possibly derived from something larger). And that is why I intend to start with smaller, more flexible, less inertia-driven distributions such as Alpine and Ad=C3=A9lie (and maybe Void or Manjaro or... someday). Mainstream distributions will only show interest when the work has already been done somewhere else, multiple times, and has been proven to be significantly better than what they already have. >Extra layers generally make things harder to work with, not easier. It really depends on the quality of the automation here. If the abstraction is leaky and you have to look into the lower layer, then yes, the upper layer is a hindrance more than anything. But if the abstraction is airtight, as I intend to make it, then people can just work with the upper layer and not worry about the inner mechanisms. The inner mechanisms are still there and tweakable for power users, but the point is to get a smooth, simplified interface on top. >Whoever may be building something new with s6 would probably benefit >more from a reference system that's simple enough to understand >and which could be used as a base for extending into a full blown >distribution. Having examples at hand would likely matter much more >than the format of service description. That is what I would naturally lean towards, but it is explicitly *not* what I was told by distro maintainers. You need to be realistic here and admit that file-based configuration with key=3Dvalue lines is more human-friendly than directory-based configuration. Old habits die hard, and people who are used to the systemd or openrc way of doing things just do not want to completely switch their mental model and deal with something with directories and small files everywhere, and what the heck is a service directory and why can't you tune your daemon settings in a config file like everyone else. Fortunately, the s6 and s6-rc formats are easy to autogenerate; some may even argue that they were *purposefully* designed to be easy to autogenerate. Who knows. So, slapping a UI on top of them is, like, exactly the kind of thing they're good at, so if that's what people=20 want, there's no reason not to give people what they want. >The reaction to the slew manual I'm afraid will likely be along the >lines of "that's all cool and stuff but how do I actually run this?". That is exactly most people's reaction when they first discover the supervision paradigm. You need to somewhat know how it works to fully appreciate its quality. -- Laurent