[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Jonathan Engdahl]

I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.

There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
my method, let me know.

http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP


"Teach a man to fish..."

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap@ics.forth.gr>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?


> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1
> controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing
> BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of
> zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded
> directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version
> of zrqb or something similar?

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
It hasn't returned. 

However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has
been a
> long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program
that I
> think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> 
> There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> my method, let me know.
> 
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> 
> 
> "Teach a man to fish..."
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> 
> 
> > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
RQDX1
> > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
installing
> > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
version of
> > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
downloaded
> > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a
version
> > of zrqb or something similar?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Jonathan Engdahl]

I fixed the link.

E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a
machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and
E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if
there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
> that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
> is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
> one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
> at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
> That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
> It hasn't returned.
>
> However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
> here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> XXDP
> >
> > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
> header
> > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has
> been a
> > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program
> that I
> > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
> improve
> > my method, let me know.
> >
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> >
> > "Teach a man to fish..."
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> >
> >
> > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> RQDX1
> > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> installing
> > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> version of
> > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> downloaded
> > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a
> version
> > > of zrqb or something similar?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Gregg C Levine]

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Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Regarding Dbit, and E-11. The site is back. But you're right. I don't
think there's a fix. If there is one, he'll probably deny it.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I fixed the link.
> 
> E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
> machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP
now, and
> E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to
see if
> there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But
the
> > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are
available
> > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error
message.
> > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is
unfortunate.
> > It hasn't returned.
> >
> > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've
proven.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> > XXDP
> > >
> > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> > header
> > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> > been a
> > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> > that I
> > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> > improve
> > > my method, let me know.
> > >
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > >
> > > "Teach a man to fish..."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Engdahl
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> > >
> > > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> > RQDX1
> > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> > installing
> > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> > version of
> > > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> > downloaded
> > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
> > version
> > > > of zrqb or something similar?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5352 bytes --]

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I can't understand it. When I posted the original reply, that site
regarding XXDP wasn't up. Now it is. I think this is all because the
Winter of 2003, is causing chaos to over work itself. And Jonathan, I
know we'll figure something out. This business is fun, so I'm looking
at it, as a hobby if nothing else.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I fixed the link.
> 
> E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
> machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP
now, and
> E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to
see if
> there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But
the
> > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are
available
> > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error
message.
> > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is
unfortunate.
> > It hasn't returned.
> >
> > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've
proven.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> > XXDP
> > >
> > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> > header
> > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> > been a
> > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> > that I
> > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> > improve
> > > my method, let me know.
> > >
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > >
> > > "Teach a man to fish..."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Engdahl
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> > >
> > > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> > RQDX1
> > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> > installing
> > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> > version of
> > > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> > downloaded
> > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
> > version
> > > > of zrqb or something similar?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Michael Davidson]

Jonathan Engdahl wrote:

>I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header
>on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
>long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
>think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
>
>There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
>my method, let me know.
>
>http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
>
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.

While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)

This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.

In your example you have:

000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702

If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).

If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:

000137
145702

or:

000167
145676

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Jonathan Engdahl]

You are right: 000137. The funny thing is, I had it right the first time.
I'll go update the web page.

On the other header fields, I agree with your idea, but for some reason, I
have this vague recollection that there was a reason for what I did with
them. It's always a bad idea to second guess something you did a year ago
and "fix" it (see the 000137 thing). It's working, so I'd best leave it
alone until it's proven to be broken. I think I remember setting it up that
way after reading through the source for some boot loader.

Hmm, yes, it was the "boot" program. VTserver squirts down a small loader
via ODT, which then loads boot.dd. Same as the boot program that the 512
byte rauboot program loads. This one:

73Boot from ra(0,0,0) at 0172150
: ra(0,0,0)unix

 Boot.dd knows enough to chat with the console so you can tell it what file
you want off the virtual tape or hard drive, and it does some decoding of
the header, but it's limited. Maybe I should go read that code again.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson@pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> >my method, let me know.
> >
> >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
>
> While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
>
> This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> you to the restart address.
>
> In your example you have:
>
> 000020/ 000167
> 000022/ 145702
>
> If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> 2 words of the restart code).
>
> If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> it isn't) you would want either:
>
> 000137
> 145702
>
> or:
>
> 000167
> 145676
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Jonathan Engdahl]

Now that I think of it,

> 000137
> 145702

is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case
it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it
would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722.

I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.

Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson@pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> >my method, let me know.
> >
> >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
>
> While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
>
> This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> you to the restart address.
>
> In your example you have:
>
> 000020/ 000167
> 000022/ 145702
>
> If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> 2 words of the restart code).
>
> If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> it isn't) you would want either:
>
> 000137
> 145702
>
> or:
>
> 000167
> 145676
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Warren Toomey]

In article by Jonathan Engdahl:
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.

I'm glad I wrote VTserver, it seems it has more uses than I thought of.
I'm out of the development loop for the new VTserver, but hopefully
it's progressing along.

	Warren

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4081 bytes --]

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> Now that I think of it,
> 
> > 000137
> > 145702
> 
> is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
this case
> it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
memory, it
> would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to
145722.
> 
> I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
> 
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> >
> > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
> header
> > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program that
> I
> > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > >my method, let me know.
> > >
> > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> >
> > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> >
> > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > you to the restart address.
> >
> > In your example you have:
> >
> > 000020/ 000167
> > 000022/ 145702
> >
> > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > 2 words of the restart code).
> >
> > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > it isn't) you would want either:
> >
> > 000137
> > 145702
> >
> > or:
> >
> > 000167
> > 145676
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Jonathan Engdahl]

The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy controller.
I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here and
there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had one that
was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad bus
buffer and fixed it.

I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53. Wait,
though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts the DMA
buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final destination is
higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had to
worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also.

DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on it.

Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
804140-1.

Second picture down on this page:
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm

Here's how it boots:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
>
> Now that I think of it,
>
> > 000137
> > 145702
>
> is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
this case
> it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
memory, it
> would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to
145722.
>
> I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
>
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
>
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
>
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
>
>
> > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> >
> > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
> header
> > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program that
> I
> > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > >my method, let me know.
> > >
> > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> >
> > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> >
> > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > you to the restart address.
> >
> > In your example you have:
> >
> > 000020/ 000167
> > 000022/ 145702
> >
> > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > 2 words of the restart code).
> >
> > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > it isn't) you would want either:
> >
> > 000137
> > 145702
> >
> > or:
> >
> > 000167
> > 145676
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

DEC Compatible boards was RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7137 bytes --]

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Going to the website you suggested www.arcind.net brought up an
interesting collection of boards, the ones made by Data Translation:

Data Translation:
1 - DT2762-DI
1 - DT2762-SE
1 - DT2762-SE-PG

At first glance I believe them to be the usual items that DT was
making for DEC systems until whenever they decided to EOL the whole
product line. DT, not DEC. Can any of you, ID them? Oh, and Jonathan,
I've sent an e-mail off to the company requesting a quote.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:34 AM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy
controller.
> I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here
and
> there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had
one that
> was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad
bus
> buffer and fixed it.
> 
> I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53.
Wait,
> though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts
the DMA
> buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final
destination is
> higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had
to
> worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also.
> 
> DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on
it.
> 
> Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
> 804140-1.
> 
> Second picture down on this page:
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm
> 
> Here's how it boots:
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
> And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
> what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't
quite
> remember hearing about.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
-->
> XXDP
> >
> > Now that I think of it,
> >
> > > 000137
> > > 145702
> >
> > is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
> this case
> > it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
> memory, it
> > would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump
to
> 145722.
> >
> > I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
> >
> > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a
barely
> > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
> for an
> > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> > To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> > Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
-->
> XXDP
> >
> >
> > > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> > >
> > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put
> a
> > header
> > > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
> has been a
> > > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
> program that
> > I
> > > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > > >
> > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if
someone
> can
> > improve
> > > >my method, let me know.
> > > >
> > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > > >
> > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> > >
> > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> > >
> > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > > you to the restart address.
> > >
> > > In your example you have:
> > >
> > > 000020/ 000167
> > > 000022/ 145702
> > >
> > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > > 2 words of the restart code).
> > >
> > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > > it isn't) you would want either:
> > >
> > > 000137
> > > 145702
> > >
> > > or:
> > >
> > > 000167
> > > 145676
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups