[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Gregg C Levine]

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Hello from Gregg C Levine
Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that completely
discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC
Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one of
course, would be a good thing.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Wilko Bulte]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:23:15PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that completely
> discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC
> Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one of
> course, would be a good thing.

A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models
had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's.
And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.

-- 
|   / o / /_  _   		wkb at freebie.xs4all.nl
|/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[David Evans]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> 
> A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
> CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models
> had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's.
> And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.
> 

  Yeah, that's my memory as well.  Rick Macklem did a port of 2.9BSD to them.
I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to load vi!

-- 
David Evans                                         dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Wilko Bulte]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:50:21PM -0500, David Evans wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> > 
> > A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
> > CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models
> > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's.
> > And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.
> > 
> 
>   Yeah, that's my memory as well.  Rick Macklem did a port of 2.9BSD to them.
> I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to load vi!

The 380 was pretty much OK in my recollection. 350 was downright slow.
RD5x drives did not help here..

-- 
|   / o / /_  _   		wkb at freebie.xs4all.nl
|/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[David Evans]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:19:03PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:50:21PM -0500, David Evans wrote:
> >   Yeah, that's my memory as well.  Rick Macklem did a port of 2.9BSD to them.
> > I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to load vi!
> 
> The 380 was pretty much OK in my recollection. 350 was downright slow.
> RD5x drives did not help here..
> 

  You may be right--I never used a 380.  I remember becomming very frustrated
trying to compile rz/sz.

-- 
David Evans                                         dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Gregg C Levine]

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Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
I take it this means that the software written for those things, won't
run on an emulator normally running as a member of the regular PDP
family of machines? Such as the SIMH PDP-11 emulator, or the E11 ones.
Mr. Wilson, (John), mentions the operating system for the PRO, on the
PDF file that describes the E11, both versions as being copyrighted,
and mentions the company name.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> Behalf Of Wilko Bulte
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:19 PM
> To: David Evans
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org; Gregg C Levine
> Subject: Re: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS
> 
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:50:21PM -0500, David Evans wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> > >
> > > A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this
correctly)
> > > CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX
models
> > > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the
Pro's.
> > > And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.
> > >
> >
> >   Yeah, that's my memory as well.  Rick Macklem did a port of
2.9BSD to them.
> > I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to
load vi!
> 
> The 380 was pretty much OK in my recollection. 350 was downright
slow.
> RD5x drives did not help here..
> 
> --
> |   / o / /_  _   		wkb at freebie.xs4all.nl
> |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Johnny Billquist]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
> I take it this means that the software written for those things, won't
> run on an emulator normally running as a member of the regular PDP
> family of machines? Such as the SIMH PDP-11 emulator, or the E11 ones.
> Mr. Wilson, (John), mentions the operating system for the PRO, on the
> PDF file that describes the E11, both versions as being copyrighted,
> and mentions the company name.

Well, the console behaviour (and CSR) is not the same as a
"normal" PDP-11, so it would require special handling to act like a PRO.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Johnny Billquist]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Wilko Bulte wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 03:23:15PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that completely
> > discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC
> > Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one of
> > course, would be a good thing.
> 
> A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
> CPU.

The 380 had a J11.

> I think you could also run RT-11 on them.

Correct. RT11 have support for the PRO, even if it isn't official.

> Some big VAX models
> had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's.
> And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.

All I/O is specific for the PRO. They used a very different I/O-system
than other PDP-11s.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Johnny Billquist]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:

> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that completely
> discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC
> Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one of
> course, would be a good thing.

Since the PRO is a brain-damaged PDP-11, and P/OS is more or less a
brain-damaged RSX system, feel free to talk about it on info-pdp11. :-)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Gregg C Levine]

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Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
Johnny, I already concluded that fact from the slightly peeved remarks
returned from some of the regulars on this list.  I might also add, I
only have the software here. I don't have the thing itself. If we want
to discuss this further, everyone who's interested, we can take this
off-list, or on, until we get flagged by the Owner.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnny Billquist [mailto:bqt at update.uu.se]
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:13 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS
> 
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that
completely
> > discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC
> > Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one
of
> > course, would be a good thing.
> 
> Since the PRO is a brain-damaged PDP-11, and P/OS is more or less a
> brain-damaged RSX system, feel free to talk about it on info-pdp11.
:-)
> 
> 	Johnny
> 
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[John Holden]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> 
> A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
> CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models
> had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's.
> And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.

The Pro380 used the J11 chip. The T11 was a totally different chip, with only
the base instruction set (no multiply/divide/floating point) and 8 or 16 bit
bus

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Fred N. van Kempen]

> A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly)
> CPU.
The 380 had a J11, the 350 had an F11.  I *believe* the 280 was
somewhere between an 11/73 and an 11/53, and the 350 was somewhat
like an 11/23.

> I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models
> had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on 
> the Pro's.
Correct.

If memory serves me right, you had P/OS (a menu-driven branch of the
RT11 system), and Venix, a somewhat Unix-like system.  Given some
work, one should be able to get standard RT working on it.

--f

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Fred N. van Kempen]

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Well, those programs emulate both the CPU (which *is* the same as
those found in the PRO systems), but *also* the surrounding stuff
like disk controllers, serial controllers and so on.

It would not be (that) hard to add "PRO" emulation to SimH, if some
sort of hardware specs are still available.

cheers,
	Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregg C Levine [mailto:hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:56 AM
> To: 'David Evans'
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: RE: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS
> 
> 
> Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine
> I take it this means that the software written for those things, won't
> run on an emulator normally running as a member of the regular PDP
> family of machines? Such as the SIMH PDP-11 emulator, or the E11 ones.
> Mr. Wilson, (John), mentions the operating system for the PRO, on the
> PDF file that describes the E11, both versions as being copyrighted,
> and mentions the company name.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
> [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> > Behalf Of Wilko Bulte
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:19 PM
> > To: David Evans
> > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org; Gregg C Levine
> > Subject: Re: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS
> > 
> > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:50:21PM -0500, David Evans wrote:
> > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this
> correctly)
> > > > CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX
> models
> > > > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the
> Pro's.
> > > > And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros.
> > > >
> > >
> > >   Yeah, that's my memory as well.  Rick Macklem did a port of
> 2.9BSD to them.
> > > I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to
> load vi!
> > 
> > The 380 was pretty much OK in my recollection. 350 was downright
> slow.
> > RD5x drives did not help here..
> > 
> > --
> > |   / o / /_  _   		wkb at freebie.xs4all.nl
> > |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[David Evans]

On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 03:08:55AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
> It would not be (that) hard to add "PRO" emulation to SimH, if some
> sort of hardware specs are still available.
> 

  There are these:

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-PC300-V1-001_pro300tecV1.pdf
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-PC300-V2-001_pro300tecV2.pdf

and if they're like the spiral-bound book I had back in 1991, they should
do the trick.

  I wonder if I still have that manual somewhere...the Pro that went
with it is long-gone...

-- 
David Evans                                         dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

[Tarik Isani]

Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
> Well, those programs emulate both the CPU (which *is* the same as
> those found in the PRO systems), but *also* the surrounding stuff
> like disk controllers, serial controllers and so on.
> 
> It would not be (that) hard to add "PRO" emulation to SimH, if some
> sort of hardware specs are still available.
> 
> cheers,
> 	Fred

This is actually exactly what I have done.  The emulator is
available here:

http://xhomer.isani.org/

Tarik