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[68.2.246.115]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m1-20020a17090aab0100b001cd4989fecesm5776581pjq.26.2022.05.05.16.01.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 May 2022 16:01:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Thornton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_17C99B62-EA3C-4723-8C64-C8E5A032743C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 16:01:19 -0700 References: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <0173C556-D51E-44E4-A56B-8B738497AB83@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Alternative Implementation Proposal for Unix/370 (BTL, 1979) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_17C99B62-EA3C-4723-8C64-C8E5A032743C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On May 5, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Tom Lyon via TUHS = wrote: >=20 > I was (re?)introduced to Chuck Haley recently and discovered he had a = copy of a Bell Labs memo from himself, London, Maranzaro, and Ritchie. = They suggest that the path pursued to get UNIX running in/under TSS/370 = was the hard way to go. >=20 > Enjoy: = http://charles.the-haleys.org/papers/Alternate_Implementation_Proposal_for= _Unix370.pdf = Oh my. I mean, I know that OS (and descendants--for those of you without this = particular trauma, we mostly mean MVS (now z/OS), but of course there's = OS/MFT, OS/MVT, and then OS/MVS) was always trying to kill VM, and we = went through similar crap with Linux/390 (and zLinux), which contains = code to let it run directly on the iron, even though even production = shops are not going to *do* that (OpenSolaris-for-z required VM = underneath it; hell, it required a couple new DIAGs we requested). That actually makes it easy to run zLinux on Hercules, so I'm not = complaining, but...it's not how any shop running it as anything other = than a curiosity would do it. I mean, OK, I guess you could have a = teeny little LPAR but let's face it the LPAR is basically VM. But TSS was always *also* an also-ran (that is, not OS). It's really = weird (to me, anyway) to see it was hostile to VM too. Adam= --Apple-Mail=_17C99B62-EA3C-4723-8C64-C8E5A032743C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On May 5, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Tom Lyon via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:

I was (re?)introduced to Chuck Haley recently = and discovered he had a copy of a Bell Labs memo from himself, London, = Maranzaro, and Ritchie.  They suggest that the path pursued to get = UNIX running in/under TSS/370 was the hard way to go.

Enjoy:  http://charles.the-haleys.org/papers/Alternate_Implementation_P= roposal_for_Unix370.pdf

Oh my.

I mean, I know that OS (and = descendants--for those of you without this particular trauma, we mostly = mean MVS (now z/OS), but of course there's OS/MFT, OS/MVT, and then = OS/MVS)  was always trying to kill VM, and we went through similar = crap with Linux/390 (and zLinux), which contains code to let it run = directly on the iron, even though even production shops are not going to = *do* that (OpenSolaris-for-z required VM underneath it; hell, it = required a couple new DIAGs we requested).

That actually makes it easy to run = zLinux on Hercules, so I'm not complaining, but...it's not how any shop = running it as anything other than a curiosity would do it.  I mean, = OK, I guess you could have a teeny little LPAR but let's face it the = LPAR is basically VM.

But TSS was always *also* an also-ran (that is, not OS). =  It's really weird (to me, anyway) to see it was hostile to VM = too.

Adam
= --Apple-Mail=_17C99B62-EA3C-4723-8C64-C8E5A032743C--