From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27115 invoked from network); 29 May 2020 17:14:51 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 May 2020 17:14:51 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 871729CA30; Sat, 30 May 2020 03:14:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A989C600; Sat, 30 May 2020 03:14:16 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=mhorton-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@mhorton-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="rZ4PEArC"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2E2359C600; Sat, 30 May 2020 03:14:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f196.google.com (mail-pl1-f196.google.com [209.85.214.196]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 993E79C5E5 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 03:14:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f196.google.com with SMTP id m7so1397306plt.5 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 10:14:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mhorton-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=iWvCXNJAtPAH/FtntFb6T+vJd/KZ+yLM6lNzKZVUT6k=; b=rZ4PEArCIuE5r+6D1g3is2v/nY9Y48wN1Spd0y6e6vk6rX0k1u0Te41hNtFPxFSsOd nkZJrUjzF4szilopCPejNPmIncgrqvLEMRzq5fhSrWBPgYFHHb4bGkmx+anIxn5uSuJ+ AEUNXL9ixtkdcMtxRfykBEREf23j2zB2TJ5zZz3Pc5Bf4m1T8E822K3bpXjKYJYfHxvT ilMQc8QDMXDXpBcyxdWUSm0siB5jY+URd+08mAa0Yy7nxKp8RZ/cZHKrnhzX0112HfP0 et0MvKzbSCGOYH6N+Eg9O7KjqYcwMnUPkwGuzeTxZ+4ifSnitMYWHORce0PFrVY7Sy9O 6Ecw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=iWvCXNJAtPAH/FtntFb6T+vJd/KZ+yLM6lNzKZVUT6k=; b=HZFBLjnds4UdzCih6i2rJEEj+fsS+utqu4gV0w/Q1+/r/mHWbsk/QB5okhpHPQHZg8 ZZnHq6flgqbJ1GT1fOI3J9TNzJhKZiDy7/5CGwG3fkjElpUFe76yZ1jAewi65fMU8z+I n810vWP6N6+8cq4rR7MDkjAE5pjvnKXUmWamjAa6CUFTOkGIa4z/3kUZbvFvsxK+HowP ijs4ARP+tu2OxmFh9rkKVOn0qgGhcBOCA4pED5VdmwcmcmeIUdrm8tVIhpGclLUMatUp di4t2H8SacbZDnipEtNi/LO2tcf2FGgxmIyCv+OSEI0WSDnOmL0fZrCp2erhjbNttIPO ih2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532P+FSzO1ploWv1oPu9JIRqWzz5zCzWN6Lt4Jub5XPVgB32fftF ftwJX/GX1q4tOFlc4tMfZovEL38tDLg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTW4y5a3JpzP0+g9FwaT7+59N17blD8J72LfMDL+mE59Sw5b69Wr251LLSRFtminDVi2Z2WA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:6881:: with SMTP id a1mr10488245pjd.153.1590772451420; Fri, 29 May 2020 10:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (ip72-197-247-231.sd.sd.cox.net. [72.197.247.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 7sm7875027pfc.203.2020.05.29.10.14.10 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 May 2020 10:14:10 -0700 (PDT) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <1jeHk5-5LM-00@marmaro.de> <20200529001853.GB27423@eureka.lemis.com> From: Mary Ann Horton Message-ID: <0222efc8-e02f-7de8-dc94-9cba389c98a4@mhorton.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 10:14:10 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A64E7246130FA0657822C65E" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] fmt(1): history, POSIX, -t, -c X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A64E7246130FA0657822C65E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 5/29/20 6:39 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:11 AM Michael Stiller via TUHS > > wrote: > > It is also included in 2.9BSD, or was it backported: > > Just recompiled. I don't think this was one he had to make any changes > too. As Mary Ann and I said, Kurt wrote as part of the UCB Mail > package [which includes delivermail(8) - which was the moral parent to > sendmail(8)]. fmt was literally part of Mail - it compiled in the same source directory, and was considered user agent (UA) code. delivermail/sendmail was separate, also from Berkeley, but written primarily by Eric Allman, and was the mail transport agent (MTA). It's in 2.8BSD as well. > The whole key is that Keith did not have a Vax at the Math department > (they had an 11/70 with max memory) and wanted all of the cool > programs that were being created on the Vax.   Remember, VM is > automatic overlays.   So first with the kernel, and then later with > user code, larger and larger programs were enabled and many of the > programs for the Vax migrated to the PDP-11, as people ran out of > address space (IIRC: one the first user programs that needed to use > overlays was ex/vi.  Again, as I recall the original wnj version by > then was such a mess, getting a new/cleaner code base was a large > impetus for Keith to start writing nvi). ex/vi didn't use overlays (unless you count split I/D). It fit in 64 bits by using ifdefs.  Less useful code, like supporting upper-case-only terminals, would be ifdeffed out on the pdp11.     Mary Ann --------------A64E7246130FA0657822C65E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 5/29/20 6:39 AM, Clem Cole wrote:


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:11 AM Michael Stiller via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
It is also included in 2.9BSD, or was it backported:
Just recompiled. I don't think this was one he had to make any changes too. As Mary Ann and I said, Kurt wrote as part of the UCB Mail package [which includes delivermail(8) - which was the moral parent to sendmail(8)].  
fmt was literally part of Mail - it compiled in the same source directory, and was considered user agent (UA) code.  delivermail/sendmail was separate, also from Berkeley, but written primarily by Eric Allman, and was the mail transport agent (MTA). It's in 2.8BSD as well.
The whole key is that Keith did not have a Vax at the Math department (they had an 11/70 with max memory) and wanted all of the cool programs that were being created on the Vax.   Remember, VM is automatic overlays.   So first with the kernel, and then later with user code, larger and larger programs were enabled and many of the programs for the Vax migrated to the PDP-11, as people ran out of address space (IIRC: one the first user programs that needed to use overlays was ex/vi.  Again, as I recall the original wnj version by then was such a mess, getting a new/cleaner code base was a large impetus for Keith to start writing nvi). 

ex/vi didn't use overlays (unless you count split I/D). It fit in 64 bits by using ifdefs.  Less useful code, like supporting upper-case-only terminals, would be ifdeffed out on the pdp11.

    Mary Ann



--------------A64E7246130FA0657822C65E--