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[173.48.168.163]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m15-v6sm8777493qtm.84.2018.06.23.08.38.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Jun 2018 08:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Clem cole X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15F79) In-Reply-To: <1A6A6B78-974A-4B4B-B29A-70DC15088038@ccc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:38:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0257BE8F-74CB-487C-B526-13691494FD7E@ccc.com> References: <48b2a3f8-66ca-2527-f471-062eead1c6fe@update.uu.se> <04190921-6f50-a643-63f7-41f3bfd0b7e5@update.uu.se> <1A6A6B78-974A-4B4B-B29A-70DC15088038@ccc.com> To: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: [TUHS] Old mainframe I/O speed X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" #%^* autocorrect. Pentium sigh. =20 Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.= =20 > On Jun 23, 2018, at 11:35 AM, Clem cole wrote: >=20 > Ah. Maybe I understand where you are coming (or may be not). What the fo= rmal marketing names were on the street - I never much worried about. I=E2= =80=99ve always followed the engineering path between the teams on the insid= e and the technologies and never cared what the marketing people named them.= =20 >=20 > What we now call pci was developed as the io bus for turbo laser as part o= f Alpha. It needed to be cheap, fast and expandable to 64 bits. Intel and= the PC did not have anything coming that could do that and the DEC folks kn= ew that. =20 >=20 > Anyway. You may also remember intel tripped over 10 patents in the mid 90= s when Penguin magically caught up in one generation and DEC sued Intel - my= favorite Andy Grove quote - =E2=80=9Cthere is nothing left to steal.=E2=80=9D= One of the patents was part of the pci bus technology. You are probably c= orrect that it was sourced at dec as part of the turbochannel program - I do= n=E2=80=99t remember. But the result of the suit was that the guts of pci w= as licensed by intel from DEC. I played a very very small part of it all th= at a long time ago. The NDAs have probably all expired but I generally don=E2= =80=99t talk much more about it that what I have. =20 >=20 > When it was all said and done AMD got the Alpha memory bus (K7 and EV6 are= electrical brothers) and the industry got PCI. =20 >=20 >=20 > BTW. When I came to Intel I do know there was still grumbling about licen= se fees to then HP. I=E2=80=99m not sure how all that was finally resolved= but I believe it has been as part of the Itainium stuff but I=E2=80=99ve no= t been a part of any of that. =20 >=20 > Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quit= e.=20 >=20 >>> On Jun 23, 2018, at 7:57 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 2018-06-23 13:39, Clem cole wrote: >>> PCI was a late 1980s DEC design bus design that where released via licen= se ala the Ethernet experience of the xerox/dec/Intel blue book. DEC had m= ostly learned it lesson that interface standards were better shared. I=E2=80= =99ve forgotten now the name of the person who lead the team. I did not kno= w him very well. I can picture his face as I said. >>=20 >> It's just that this sounds so much like the TURBOchannel (not Turbobus as= I wrote previously). That bus exactly matches your description of details, t= imelines and circumstances, while the PCI, to my knowledge don't match at al= l. >>=20 >> And my recollection also matches Wikipedia, which even gives the PCI V1.0= spec being released in 1992. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventiona= l_PCI) >>=20 >> Compare to TURBOchannel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TURBOchannel >>=20 >> Johnny >>=20 >>=20 >>> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not qu= ite. >>>>> On Jun 23, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote= : >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 2018-06-22 20:01, Clem Cole wrote: >>>>> One of the other BI people, who's name now escapes me, although I can s= ee >>>>> his face in my mind, maybe I'll think of it later), would go on to do t= he >>>>> PCI for Alpha a couple of years later. As I said, DEC did manage to g= et >>>>> that one public, after the BI was made private as Erik points out. >>>>=20 >>>> Clem, I think I saw you say something similar in an earlier post. >>>> To me it sounds as if you are saying that DEC did/designed PCI. >>>> Are you sure about that? As far as I know, PCI was designed and created= by Intel, and the first users were just plain PC machines. >>>> Alpha did eventually also get PCI, but it was not where it started, and= DEC had no control at all about PCI being public. >>>>=20 >>>> Might you have been thinking of Turbobus, Futurebus, or some other thin= g that DEC did? Or do you have some more information about DEC being the cre= ator of PCI? >>>>=20 >>>> Johnny >>>>=20 >>>> --=20 >>>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >>>> || on a psychedelic trip >>>> email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books >>>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >> || on a psychedelic trip >> email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books >> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol