From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id dfd56c3c for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 18:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 60C109466F; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:16:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D5194666; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:16:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CCC5194666; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:16:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from knecht.neophilic.com (knecht.neophilic.com [70.36.157.234]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5112993D29 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:16:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from rieux.neophilic.com (rieux.neophilic.com [10.0.2.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by knecht.neophilic.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0CIG25d092323 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tuhs@eric.allman.name) To: Clem Cole , TUHS main list References: <39F862F7-7C4B-4A09-B838-942BE0FD2626@planet.nl> <1581c01d4a9c2$ffed5340$ffc7f9c0$@ronnatalie.com> <20190111221853.GB7733@mcvoy.com> From: Eric Allman Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=tuhs@eric.allman.name; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQGiBDu8yuARBADuTa8bzS4Er9urm7XPu5vtrRRJMoY2/mvuQeRHpvHF6ncUF2ZC9nAkIYb6 Upl9UOCZxG6uwxzzzSnxeHg7aAVY/TEN4FukuN1X1aGvol/V8PM1nV5vyLFk/Tf/Q/yoN/w8 tK9dp/O2EflChD/i/J9vWIppg3rVKK6FPW4CuqqaiwCg/ytVY7yJHZCCrhRioLBtKaCGUB0D /20dzSKBUdOxSvfg3NKt7gojiqulxmNbRkkjuhbKMRiQ0jjt16L9h+zlS1mXNT91/Ds08WtF 99Z3YffTflcbU9uBea6AJhzIaYVHwCJsNyP+rGE+9CM1YZpwm5k/ZBr7iOr0tkI1o39JRg75 Ih18gnPVXovH+VhsXRGtxTqn7+dmBADmmsHL8u/qbBWKIC3TYpXH8rJBIJXHwvOrI4HbEvAh xzD/Zy6yGMgiTZ8quGHzmdm1kD53s/TVcgEo/XWlgy9Cr05tU16UGEx/Q38K4IetCTGjhOvY a0+I012p5ZK1KqnIjUuCAy7VgGy75sBPKzYeUjJ1yAO7+EMXaZP6Olejn7QiRXJpYyBQLiBB bGxtYW4gPGVyaWNAU2VuZG1haWwuQ09NPohOBBARAgAOBAsDAQICGQEFAju8yuEACgkQMRmA Uc8aTSwR/gCfcq/84OdF6e6hkUQQbVFPqsxS6N0An13gLkFVkPJrMs+5PK5ogl0k7yW8uQIN BDu8yuAQCAD2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0Op lK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ+PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJ Zv8V+bv9kV7HAarTW56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIiz HHxbLY7288kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XpMgs7AAICB/0d vsPKvMXcKls8RHeYcleBEQEgXovGaTNo8R3ZVjPcDUKcQbfWMP8w5qJKf36hvBsjEgfVJW7r lKUtA82H66ivnAgAqWZMgfROKSHwaTFScFWLR8lG5e7sd2OZ4xqDe6+BpYlmJocR2riughz8 B7p1RhINqpfslZ0QEdB/fscntjoBvohtjG80BwB/tB6gnWHsjd9Cv6QfiNYOzAWaQo+BmcFq kmTYwrXFFNWHjOWfCUyjg2kqztl0DHjmZ7AzgHgTEnPku2TlMXwaGbHZKDOwLP/dteywinK6 SEOW2HrQBMxkMQGEZWtOH6hjszJtkqn+V4O0c92d4FjaQhvleSL7iD8DBRg7vMrgMRmAUc8a TSwRAklEAJ44uotW5aUoI1uMu94xIkLeCI6iWACg1IbChgU5suH4a+T68hfH8Jwa140= Message-ID: <054ff0fa-2581-89a7-3bbd-5fe95affa8ea@neophilic.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:16:02 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] V6 networking & alarm syscall X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" > Eric, please fill me in. I have to admit that my memories are a bit fuzzy, but I'll try to fill in what I can. On 2019-01-12 9:20 AM, Clem Cole wrote: ... > FWIW: Since I had been working networking at both CMU and Tek before I > came to UCB, one of the first things I did when I arrived in fall '81 > was to install the Gurwitz BBN IP/TCP stack on 4.1 so we could run > Ethernet between the 3 CAD machines in Cory Hall to replace the use of > BerkNet over 9600 baud serial links (IIRC Eric Cooper, was involved with > that hack also).   When I had arrived, few machines at UCB were on LANS > and the need for ARPAnet style networking >>besides<< email was still > limited.  The way people connected to systems was their terminal was to > connect over serial links and we had a giant 'plugboard' that allowed > you patch your terminal into one of the systems [I wonder if there are > pictures of these somewhere in the UCB archives - it was quite something]. That it was. When the INGRES group got our ARPAnet connection (VDH to LBL, as you mentioned) it was the only long-haul connection to campus that I know of. Eric Schmidt had done BerkNET, but that was local mail and file copy only, and BerkNET mail didn't connect to ARPAnet mail, so there were "plugboard wars" over who got one of the two RS232 connections we had available for outside users (this was out of a grand total of 16 connections on a DH-11, each at about $1000/port, iirc). I was nominally responsible for the ARPAnet connection, so I had senior faculty on my case about how they all "needed" dedicated connections to their office (but of course they didn't want to pay for them). This was the original inspiration for delivermail, which later became sendmail. > We had three 780s in the CAD group in Cory and really did not like the > plugboard scheme. From my previous experience, I wanted something like > telnet or supdup, like we had been messing with at CMU and Tek.  Hence > my push to put the BBN code on the CAD systems and use an ethernet.    > Eric, please fill me in.   You must have been running the BBN code then > also, since Ing70 and then IngVax were the ArpaNet connection (via > a VHDH to the LBL IMP - UCB did not yet have its own IMP).   But I know > the CAD systems 4.1 networking stuff was done by me. As I recall IngVax never had any ARPAnet service, and Ing70 was running the NCP code from San Diego, which could well have originated at BB&N, but I can't confirm that from memory. Conversely, Ing70 was never on any "modern" networking technology such as 3Mbit ethernet (I don't think there were even NICs at that time). > Its a little fuzzy now, but memory is that Bob Kriddle had run a Xerox 3 > Meg cable in Cory, from my machine room over to the Ingres machine room > also; but I've forgotten the details.  BerkNet (i.e. serial links) > allowed email to flow on campus, but I'm thinking we were trying to make > that both more efficient and allow telnet/ftp [which might not have > happened until after the C/30 IMP was installed in Evan later).   [Since > all ARPAnet email followed through IngVax, Eric's history of dealing > with the header file format of the month in the old delivermail program > would force his writing sendmail - said history has been repeated here > and elsewhere previously]. Yes, modulo it being Ing70, not IngVax. > But this thread got me thinking a little bit.   I've forgotten actual > LAN topology we had a UCB now. I know from the CAD hosts, we could talk > to the other hosts in our lab in Cory for sure, I want to say we could > talk to a few other hosts in Evans and Cory; as I know Sam would give me > code usually via some type of network connection, although sneaker-net > with 9-track tapes used a great deal too.   I want to say the connection > was over Kriddle's 3M Xerox cable (Eric do you remember what you had in > IngVax in those days).  I know we also a had real 10Meg cable in floor > our lab in Cory, plus at least one Xerox board on one of the systems, > another had a DEC interface in it, and Interlan boards in at least two > others another.   We must have even had a 3Com board in the third > system; as I remember hacking both the Interlan and 3Com drivers (I had > written a 3Com driver at Tek previous for VMS.  The Interlan board was > new, as was the DEC board; but I've forgotten what we got when).     The > original CAD 780 ('Coke')  must have had multiple interfaces in it, but > I really don't remember. You would think I would remember more of the network situation around the INGRES project given that we had someone working on distributed databases (Ken Birman, now at Cornell I think, did something called COCANET). However, I have no recollection at all about what the connection actually was. It might be possible to pull some of Ken's old papers (late 70s/early 80s) and get more information there. eric