From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id cd9d8224 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 20:50:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7ADB29BD89; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:50:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17179BD1C; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:49:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=andrewnesbit.org header.i=@andrewnesbit.org header.b="CxIwbY8z"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9CE3B9BD1C; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:49:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp-out-3.mxes.net (smtp-out-3.mxes.net [198.205.123.68]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C23499BA1C for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 06:49:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Customer-MUA (mua.mxes.net [10.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48ADB27397; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:49:39 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=andrewnesbit.org; s=default; t=1568580580; bh=IQWDP0B5bY1ZkXw8m/vTQM6Z00YiTmnfdiA2ETkonmI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=CxIwbY8zPQsmZI3wqMKW/YkpuPLotAHZRtai5IBa0MpCUgxINKlBYqI1QcaulIXf4 lsu4GJkTY9oe8vjpKZlw1F9nK1Inx8VYZnpbzvqvoCxPShf1nDpF1Z3qNGGYgwJs28 Tl9Blmx9VHJcjBkea4LcXC6bVR6QLZixF5XnebrM= To: Clem Cole , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society References: <201909132024.x8DKObEP013266@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <463d5cc4-9bef-9ac3-a680-a5161d664dc1@aueb.gr> <20190913221345.GA16129@minnie.tuhs.org> <20190914020240.GO2046@mcvoy.com> <20190914024433.GA19193@minnie.tuhs.org> <2e84c4d0-5239-b223-856d-00aacf8d3028@andrewnesbit.org> From: U'll Be King of the Stars Message-ID: <069494b2-ec5b-91e7-8618-2d111e0e5aa2@andrewnesbit.org> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 21:49:37 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sent-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 15/09/2019 20:35, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 11:03 PM U'll Be King of the Stars=20 > > wrote: >=20 >=20 > I've been wondering whether it is possible and worthwhile to use *r= off > for complex technical documentation.=C2=A0 I've always loved the ae= sthetic > that books produced using *roff have but there are other reasons to= o. >=20 > Ditto.=C2=A0 The books that used roff can look clean and within a serie= s are=20 > usually consistent, but what I've like is that they are different. Yes, they look clean but different to each other. I'm guessing that the reason might be that it is easier to exercise=20 *roff's capabilities than it is to push LaTeX to get good results=20 without spending a huge amount of time. > The Prentiss-Hall=C2=A0series and the ORA books both were produced usin= g=20 > troff and different versions of ms, but the results are different. I wonder if Prentice-Hall and O'Reilly & Associates might be willing to=20 share their *roff macro sets in an open source way. > One of my complained with LaTex books is they all seem to look the same= . Don't they ever?! It has gotten to the point that Computer Modern=20 actually makes me feel *fatigued* when I encounter it when reading, say,=20 a mathematics monograph. On the other hand it's the perfect typeface for r=C3=A9sum=C3=A9s and CV'= s for=20 computer scientists. Like a secret handshake. Perhaps the reason that the CM typeface is so common is that changing=20 typefaces in LaTeX is complicated and difficult so authors leave it=20 alone. At least this has been my experience. > Getting back to *roff, does anybody know if there is a (hopefully r= ich) > repository of macros, or any other resources, for my use case? >=20 > I've never seen one. =C2=A0 As far as I knew it, publishers sometimes s= eeded=20 > authors.=C2=A0 ORA used the Masscomp/Tektronix derived=C2=A0version of = ms (-mS)=20 > that Steve Talbot created (and Rick LeFaivre originally created from th= e=20 > original Lesk V7 set).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Rich Steven's=C2=A0has his own addit= ions to the=20 > version of ms that came with groff which I have also seen. This is fascinating insider information, and it leads me full circle to=20 several reasons why I want to try to use *roff in the first place: 1. Do you think there is any chance of obtaining these macro packages?=20 Either from authors who haven't passed away, or from the publishing=20 houses themselves? 2. I get the impression that writing a macro package or editing an=20 existing is relatively straightforward. Would you agree? Or, at least, that it makes some kind of sense. I could never make=20 head or tail of LaTeX's macro extensions. I certainly didn't want to=20 spend my life trying to figure it out. I still remember the sinking feeling in my stomach when I realized=20 that the five (or so) books that make up the de facto canon of LaTeX=20 user documentation (published by Addison-Wesley) are thousands of pages=20 in total. I did not want to engage with that. I have no particular intention to speak ill of LaTeX. Rather, it is my=20 only point of reference for publishing-grade typesetting and=20 unfortunately I don't have fond memories of it. Kind regards, Andrew --=20 OpenPGP key: EB28 0338 28B7 19DA DAB0 B193 D21D 996E 883B E5B9