From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 16402 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2022 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Jun 2022 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479BD40C20; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:19:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B4CF40977 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:19:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169353200786; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:19:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=serissa.com; h= cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1656451168; x= 1656537568; bh=YHZq9znphOifPF5kPicPL3MBQYO5hF2hm9GisQ0dUGY=; b=x WwaOxQPW9Yz06kAU+FnTJfdOAMnI05PtT37kTh/mVxI+bgNGHqEcBChOvVFSD7rE W1COBixfHUNVCnI/zljkNYhmbJG5IryP/Ww4O7BPbAq9wdtisnb1AyYxK+dpXmDX 952TQj5R1/bcLRN5CGAT5uPEABgG/ZsSqvlndi9YLn6sIa2syw+rTFVrYPOBbaio W8ureLzRhy9t2kzKGQz9gZlSEo+eQG/O1RLW23oGx1MrNIFE3kuPSj0iRkLJvZac UswIQRhM2Z5DKeePyZY5GHZYpBVo7jdIPliwC8URM7O4CVAigL92806yVDj404J9 DjJEgEFAayXKEGYtg3RkQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1656451168; x= 1656537568; bh=YHZq9znphOifPF5kPicPL3MBQYO5hF2hm9GisQ0dUGY=; b=R OBoJgPsepcNgydhO791WVST9CSRS+lE/Md+w5guxGGv6NlRbVoBpXdRxF6vJEazP RG/vGmrrc8rRoj8w0NTMxM19tmj/nM1CcyfVBngVa2ejxdc4C+pdDnq+LN30PCFr ydxuPzuDoMEjf4mMDtACL/L1q17GhH5Gx8MuM6k6LhymWA+yW++/VybbXd/ZnUIY hPMiQT8xiMUUjkv2GpOKCx0kGhM7GkNDGgEQs5NdQHYvH+cJxvbS0Lk/vak/IuU/ nj4X0nQsMg67bcQvCpm9seM48Pjsg6OFRiTjlHZkrK5hzo49vC10ohzwE8VxLfo4 ADEJ3iW6eGvYT2reTDF+w== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudegjedgudeiudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpegtggfuhfgjffevgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtjeenucfhrhhomhepnfgr fihrvghntggvucfuthgvfigrrhhtuceoshhtvgifrghrthesshgvrhhishhsrgdrtghomh eqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepleevtdffledukefgvedutdeliefhteegffetvefgjeeh keefheeiudfgvdffiefgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrg hilhhfrhhomhepshhtvgifrghrthesshgvrhhishhsrgdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ibf61458d:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) From: Lawrence Stewart In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:19:27 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <07115053-45A0-4758-9B96-0B631D8A5B07@serissa.com> References: <2803DC51-6CBC-4257-B40C-8A559C27CAE3@planet.nl> <20220625230939.GG19404@mcvoy.com> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.100.31) Message-ID-Hash: SZWCYMLIBGUSMEWYAQKBQFBGUPKAU26G X-Message-ID-Hash: SZWCYMLIBGUSMEWYAQKBQFBGUPKAU26G X-MailFrom: stewart@serissa.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Research Datakit notes List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 2022, Jun 28, at 9:33 AM, Dan Cross wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 8:46 AM Rob Pike wrote: >> One of the reasons I'm not a networking expert may be relevant here. >> With networks, I never found an abstraction to hang my hat on. >=20 My theory is that networking is different because it breaks all the = time. One can get away with writing local file system programs without = checking the return codes on every single call and figuring out what you = should do in the case of every possible error. It is much harder to get away with that sort of thing when writing = network applications. And of course there is a long history of things that look like file = systems but which have network failure modes, and treating them like = they are reliable often does not end well. Full up reliable applications with replicated storage and multiple = network availability zones and raft/paxos/byzantine generals level = coding are pretty arcane. I know I am not qualified to write one. File systems are =E2=80=9Cgood enough=E2=80=9D that you can depend on = them, mostly. Networks are not. -L