From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4417 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2022 20:09:58 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jan 2022 20:09:58 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DED839CC4A; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:09:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECD8C951B7; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:09:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 41750951B7; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:09:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f178.google.com (mail-qk1-f178.google.com [209.85.222.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65E0F9518E for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:09:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f178.google.com with SMTP id o12so10298961qke.5 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=9e5IYsG+/QO3CAS5FgQPC9yNRGFYJjnXowLx1bKgL5c=; b=35JIIigeULkul4H7mQEr5qEHEkA1QmQ8fFC9DHck/FlXBFURU8ECJNyYFnRZiS/0MW fsug3BsW6cHHT2YgUw+tI3PYCrGY/8DcP7TeNBP/3g4l4NnUtBcxVkg6Sx+pjODzD3EG 4wyo47faalc7gnTWjYbhEC6ekybOOq06ahiGxHjF75OURnDcaPipJXLbCNUlc+XIUkzx FalbTLDQVbFuNtQEj94pOYH29eCxctgQBwBgWhBYv/6Q5nMsJ+QnL1IeCG0SJpj4+B2M xCjtdBzwy/ZQOQhYtoGb8Ylsp0HGtSfTFQmN8n18gx/KBuN2L1LOedemSuUDyCZYM+8D BokQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533jSL0y2wtw8AUV6rZOPiyxZvJYR3kRCKAeLN5xi5Mq7MVMc5VW BAFQS7DUqfoP4YEV04zgnKh27cITpg8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy/QKq3oLW0URRNfabqzeckuksl7yKMEqcaCEwtKpCKcq7+pL76Ak/+umlOE3R+1CLfn2TnBw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:24cf:: with SMTP id m15mr11004706qkn.518.1643573355428; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-193-50-41.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net. [107.193.50.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b10sm7507637qtb.67.2022.01.30.12.09.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:09:15 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5A540D22-4C2C-4219-9184-05160702DCF8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Barto Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:09:12 -0800 Message-Id: <075FBF35-8327-4BD1-B532-C7D7DC71375A@kdbarto.org> References: In-Reply-To: To: Dan Stromberg X-Mailer: iPad Mail (19C63) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Compilation "vs" byte-code interpretation, was Re: Looking back to 1981 - what pascal was popular on what unix? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail-5A540D22-4C2C-4219-9184-05160702DCF8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jan 30, 2022, at 10:08 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 8:58 AM David Barto wrote: >> Yes, the UCSD P-code interpreter was ported to 4.1 BSD on the VAX and it r= an natively there. I used it on sdcsvax in my senior year (1980). >=20 > This reminds me of a question I've had percolating in the back of my mind.= >=20 > Was USCD Pascal "compiled" or "interpreted" or both? >=20 > And is Java? They both have a byte code interpreter. Yes, modern Java is= JIT-compiled, but does that make Java a compiled language in the Oracle imp= lementation, or is it an interpreter with a pretty good runtime? Wasn't Jav= a referred to as "compiled" even back before the JIT compiler was added? Gr= anted, gcj is compiled. But Oracle's implementation of Java is commonly ref= erred to as a "Compiler". And what about back before Java's JIT compiler wa= s added - ISTR recall Java was referred to as a compiled language before the= JIT addition. >=20 > And then there's the CPython implementation of Python. It too uses a byte= code interpreter, but it's commonly referred to as "interpreted". But is i= t really? Granted, it has an implicit, cached compilation step, but is it l= ess compiled for that? >=20 > Is there consistency here? >=20 UCSD Pascal was =E2=80=9Ccompiled=E2=80=9D into the byte code of the interpr= eter. I wrote a P-code assembler in my senior year as part of the compiler c= lass. Java started out doing the same thing and over time native code genera= tion was added in gcj.=20 David= --Apple-Mail-5A540D22-4C2C-4219-9184-05160702DCF8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Jan 30, 2022, at 10:08 AM, Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> w= rote:

=EF= =BB=BF

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 8:58 AM David= Barto <david@kdbarto.org> wr= ote:
Yes, the UCSD P-code interpreter was ported to 4= .1 BSD on the VAX and it ran natively there. I used it on sdcsvax in my seni= or year (1980).

This reminds me of a q= uestion I've had percolating in the back of my mind.

Was USCD Pascal "compiled" or "interpreted" or both?

<= div>And is Java?  They both have a byte code interpreter.  Yes, mo= dern Java is JIT-compiled, but does that make Java a compiled language in th= e Oracle implementation, or is it an interpreter with a pretty good runtime?=   Wasn't Java referred to as "compiled" even back before the JIT compil= er was added?  Granted, gcj is compiled.  But Oracle's implementat= ion of Java is commonly referred to as a "Compiler".  And what about ba= ck before Java's JIT compiler was added - ISTR recall Java was referred to a= s a compiled language before the JIT addition.

= And then there's the CPython implementation of Python.  It too uses a b= yte code interpreter, but it's commonly referred to as "interpreted".  B= ut is it really?  Granted, it has an implicit, cached compilation step,= but is it less compiled for that?

Is there consist= ency here?

UCSD Pascal was =E2=80=9Ccompiled=E2=80=9D into the byte c= ode of the interpreter. I wrote a P-code assembler in my senior year as part= of the compiler class. Java started out doing the same thing and over time n= ative code generation was added in gcj. 

  &nbs= p;  David
= --Apple-Mail-5A540D22-4C2C-4219-9184-05160702DCF8--