From: steve@quintile.net (Steve Simon)
Subject: [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 20:13:50 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <081D35B4-094C-490E-981D-0ABC9D808EE9@quintile.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170921185705.2A31A156E523@mail.bitblocks.com>
sockets and streams, but what about tli (i think) transport level interface - that exists in one of the sys-v variants.
maybe that was streams and i just didn't realise or maybe it was something else?
-Steve
> On 21 Sep 2017, at 19:56, Bakul Shah <bakul at bitblocks.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:13:38 -0700 Jon Steinhart <jon at fourwinds.com> wrote:
>> Jon Steinhart writes:
>>
>> Maybe this is naive of me, but I have never liked parts of the sockets
>> interface. I understand that at some level it was a political/legal
>> keeping the networking code independent of the rest of the kernel.
>>> From a technical and historical standpoint, I view it as the tip of
>> the iceberg bloating the number of system calls.
>
> In a sense the socket interface is a lower level interface
> compared to other syscalls. But complicated by the fact that
> it tries to be general.
>
>> In particular, I have often thought that it would have been a better
>> and more consistent with the philosophy to have it implemented as
>> open("/dev/tcp") and so on. Granted that networking added some new
>> functionality that justified some of the system calls, just not socket().
>
> This is more or less how plan9 networking is done. Among
> other things you can write scripts that can do networking even
> though the shell knows nothing about networking. See
> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/net/
>
> The key is to realize that each protocol defines its own
> namespace so this fits naturally in plan9. Allowing services
> (programs, kernel or drivers) to define their own namespaces
> and making them accessible via a tiny interface to any program
> is the main invention of plan9. Similarly ctl files instead
> of ioctls.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-09-21 19:13 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 32+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-09-21 16:01 Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-21 16:07 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-21 16:10 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 16:20 ` David Edmondson
2017-09-21 16:25 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-21 16:27 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 16:37 ` [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX [ actually carping about streams ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-21 18:26 ` [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX Chet Ramey
2017-09-21 16:13 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-21 16:17 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 20:36 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-21 18:56 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-21 19:13 ` Steve Simon [this message]
2017-09-21 19:31 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-21 20:15 ` ron minnich
2017-09-21 20:34 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-21 23:26 ` Dave Horsfall
[not found] <mailman.1105.1506026200.3779.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2017-09-22 10:36 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2017-09-22 14:32 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-22 14:42 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 14:47 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 14:52 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2017-09-22 14:49 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-22 14:57 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 18:14 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-22 18:43 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-22 19:08 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 20:57 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-24 18:04 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 18:00 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-25 17:57 Norman Wilson
2017-09-25 18:55 ` Clem Cole
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=081D35B4-094C-490E-981D-0ABC9D808EE9@quintile.net \
--to=steve@quintile.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).