From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22335 invoked from network); 22 May 2020 14:59:52 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 May 2020 14:59:52 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 548459C917; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:59:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF579C5E8; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:59:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DB64F9C5E8; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:59:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (kvm5.telegraphics.com.au [98.124.60.144]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC529C5E5 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 00:59:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [10.210.249.17] (unknown [10.210.249.17]) by kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB6D29A59; Fri, 22 May 2020 10:59:28 -0400 (EDT) To: arnold@skeeve.com, tih@hamartun.priv.no, coppero1237@gmail.com References: <20200521182817.08C0318C093@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <202005221109.04MB92D3016090@freefriends.org> From: Toby Thain Autocrypt: addr=toby@telegraphics.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFVqRckBCACdUBQ565VYFZgKu+JjAeV2T/QIITeO+kPhViKuWooJADKB0Xra+AUSilML bmLYIPE1ZAWU3b12q0IxofU9wLe2AyQ/KIrUN891Fydhdsg6xVXRITrDobHUTyMQ8KlXMXO4 zsUq5TtlNkNbHOw6WCyoRpWUYJ1otpWVnjKLJFsvbSgtdjn2fZOLHL00wjZL+oYsFcx7aiYg bRQ7oO7nnDz7NyM/gsGWJazFLpZs1tuJSjR/ruYHCqyCa3VX1FaquVrHPkOWg0D5npDaSCWX 3OgbrarP75l43DLBuROuSJkZvLs41jrkhFeFSik2nZUwiSZWzsWAUMGMGCbGU2LljArzABEB AAG0L1RvYnkgVGhhaW4gKE1hYyBQcm8pIDx0b2J5QHRlbGVncmFwaGljcy5jb20uYXU+iQFP BBMBAgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBAVB4kPONsxSK13M05k7tV74 aS2yBQJb7srkAAoJEJk7tV74aS2yhZ0IAIB0xPUNyDPf0euMXBV6c0Of0DF7Xvg/z3322jWP sHSyIcv2+Th4cByNjUC/IdMmwLWLKGclN/t8arDLl2UaT3FgPUCZLHP+SYgtkdyw4iXhByD4 wl8E23IU08tq9MouO9IQ9PJs0szkBS/HorAaK1dHt01HyuF72Batb6RTtvNYz4LIr6ECwgAS geRSt1olUds3pXPgwZYD/l4NAJOwDuKTtNGo0867zUn82703wWnLC4BupvcMs31jI4GJU6Nl wuVEpo3KQbaEJiaddTGkMGwOlSaPaDc6/6bl62X0LmJL9JCDefudqJEe23HjQVrwqZbJ6hZG vgLmjwH8SKAl/xG5AQ0EVWpFyQEIALgVpxkG/EwDLpu3l3qPGzwdoUVh1ciunWc8N7h4n+0y H90BtCjhDR96tOpfCDOpNA9iazOHdSPDaoufEdvbSZCAAFZwOom6xVKMv0SnYB7CPXdVrb7K F9PgJlQ1LKKapCQYsOAaOb3V1nNfz8UvU0o7CUUa6ko/DCCR9+QiqsrPbErS4L4RbU4yuxcb 1rE0g83fiom/ypG/2z+6d0z8HX5oG6PLqpbAJ56a+UtGDMFvpKVkI8au93YMDCyUa8KGgsfc GWpVaxab8YkJOIgpEEaPRa5meo/UFFxfF8SmIoSiHfrMbNx83Vl0FCexuoKhNOOF2A3F+q+D i+5Q7TtkHMkAEQEAAYkBHwQYAQIACQUCVWpFyQIbDAAKCRCZO7Ve+Gktso0VB/0cNfygjw1u k/JE/xIa0D+oD+lYhjIS40v9aazGmwihGjZi29YWw6njh60j8eUu8FSmB2Rl1eLWGTG2TGz9 u3gOHpniymeeFAWPqRUVJRHRSeDxdJaV7Nx3KGysjeTj2IRHA7gU2SHClrWFZ0g5Vy75oOCk 2VeCNC7kN7PemGIlgu4zOqDDX/jUlrUoUAqTaoT4MAQNuG8dyLyE3sfrC4n7qbG1TxUGTXuS LFphJQSDcvn0WAdolwTZ3YT8cwq2KrQDbmESg425J8cdqmaMI5mJgucWf4tmAEMyjde1jRYh oQDyMgQXXY/+QvS5a7dpz4l9UZwz1bXTr32jJ/+UKrHM Message-ID: <09ac14d8-3c83-1755-5326-01befa8b7a48@telegraphics.com.au> Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 10:59:27 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202005221109.04MB92D3016090@freefriends.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org, jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2020-05-22 7:09 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Tyler Adams wrote: > >> So, now Im curious about embedded systems. In my limited experience, every >> "embedded system" I programmed for from 2002-2011 had C as its primary >> language. After 2011, I stopped programming embedded systems, so I don't >> know after that. Why was C so dominant in this space? > > First of all, because C is the (almost) perfect language for embedded > systems - tight code generated, language close to the metal, etc. etc. To my recollection, in 1985 C wasn't firstly considered an embedded language; it was considered an applications language (so was assembly, but we could say that was tapering off). I believe the explosion in popularity was due to that lesson from Unix, that you could have a single portable language for both "system" code and applications code, with a modern looking syntax, that could be self hosted and compiled to reasonably efficient machine code. All those tradeoffs and definitions are very different 40 years later, of course. (And C was far from the first or only language that met those criteria before 1975. It just happened to take off.) > >> Is it because adding >> a backend to gcc was free, C was already well known, and C was sufficiently >> performant? > > Cygnus Solutions (Hi John!) had a lot to do with this. They specialized > in porting GCC to different processors used in embedded systems and > provided support. Having to get a paid consultant doesn't exactly argue for the idea that C compilers were "easy" - plus it's almost a decade after the period of high growth. So this doesn't seem strong support for the thesis quoted by OP. --Toby > > Arnold >