From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7e679fa1 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 15:45:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E5B16A1FBC; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:45:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E93EA1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:45:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E917BA1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:45:13 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 453 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:45:13 AEST Received: from post.cogs.com (post.cogs.com [72.43.6.86]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36DFFA1C50 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 01:45:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.cogs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3B0101AFF84C; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:37:38 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cogs.com Received: from post.cogs.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (post.cogs.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id s9hzSlFOpfp3; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:37:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from rrcs-108-176-86-106.nys.biz.rr.com (rrcs-108-176-86-106.nys.biz.rr.com [108.176.86.106]) by post.cogs.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42C70101AFF83B; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:37:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <0A800C0E-3D9C-4C76-9A91-BFC3226C42CC@cogs.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_10A9E53D-000F-466E-AF1D-95DD63F484B7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.100.43\)) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:37:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society References: <20190105143031.85F3018C0B6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.43) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Ben Greenfield via TUHS Reply-To: Ben Greenfield Cc: Noel Chiappa Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_10A9E53D-000F-466E-AF1D-95DD63F484B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 5, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 8:04 AM Ed Carp > wrote: > > I looked, and it too says next to nothing about Unix (which it = describes as a > > "programming language" - pg. 346). Oh well. >=20 > Pretty funny, or sad, depending on your viewpoint! >=20 > > This is really a pretty serious omission, given that the vast = majority of > > mobile devices now run Android, which is a Unix derivative (Linux). = So just > > about everyone has a Unix-derived thing in their pocket. >=20 > To hear some people talk, everything started with Linux, and Torvalds > is a god. Nonsense. >=20 > Even iOS and MacOS are derived from BSD, I believe. I know that MacOS > is (or has been until relatively recently, at any rate) derived from > BSD. >=20 > MacOS X is derived from BSD + Mach VM, with lots of infusions from BSD = and other projects. iOS is derived from MacOS. I think that it is more clearly expressed as MacOS X has a BSD interface = to the Mach VM. Mach has always had this sort of relationship with BSD = and it still exists.=20 iOS=E2=80=A6 Ben >=20 > Warner > =20 > On 1/5/19, Noel Chiappa > wrote: > > >> From: Doug McIlroy > > > > >> I have heard also that Isaacson's "Idea Factory" (about Bell = Labs) > > > > > Did you mean the work of this title by Jon Gertner? (I have = yet to > > pull > > > down my copy to see what it says about Unix > > > > I looked, and it too says next to nothing about Unix (which it = describes as > > a > > "programming language" - pg. 346). Oh well. > > > > This is really a pretty serious omission, given that the vast = majority of > > mobile devices now run Android, which is a Unix derivative (Linux). = So just > > about everyone has a Unix-derived thing in their pocket. > > > > Noel > > --Apple-Mail=_10A9E53D-000F-466E-AF1D-95DD63F484B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 5, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> = wrote:



On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 8:04 AM Ed Carp <erc@pobox.com> wrote:
> I = looked, and it too says next to nothing about Unix (which it describes = as a
> "programming language" - pg. 346). Oh well.

Pretty funny, or sad, depending on your = viewpoint!

> This is really a pretty = serious omission, given that the vast majority of
> = mobile devices now run Android, which is a Unix derivative (Linux). So = just
> about everyone has a Unix-derived thing in their = pocket.

To hear some people talk, = everything started with Linux, and Torvalds
is a god. = Nonsense.

Even iOS and MacOS are derived = from BSD, I believe. I know that MacOS
is (or has been = until relatively recently, at any rate) derived from
BSD.

MacOS X is derived from BSD + Mach VM, with lots of = infusions from BSD and other projects. iOS is derived from = MacOS.

I = think that it is more clearly expressed as MacOS X has a BSD interface = to the Mach VM. Mach has always had this sort of relationship with BSD = and it still exists. 

iOS=E2=80=A6

Ben



Warner
 
On 1/5/19, Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
> =   >> From: Doug McIlroy
>
>     >> I have heard also that = Isaacson's "Idea Factory" (about Bell Labs)
>
>     > Did you mean the work of this = title by Jon Gertner? (I have yet to
> pull
>     > down my copy to see what it says = about Unix
>
> I looked, and it too = says next to nothing about Unix (which it describes as
> = a
> "programming language" - pg. 346). Oh well.
>
> This is really a pretty serious = omission, given that the vast majority of
> mobile = devices now run Android, which is a Unix derivative (Linux). So just
> about everyone has a Unix-derived thing in their = pocket.
>
>      =  Noel
>

= --Apple-Mail=_10A9E53D-000F-466E-AF1D-95DD63F484B7--