From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29040 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2021 22:34:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 Nov 2021 22:34:55 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3DA409CEA2; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:34:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C1B9CE5D; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:33:05 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="R9pRlogT"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 81E0C9CE5D; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:33:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f47.google.com (mail-qv1-f47.google.com [209.85.219.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDE7694942 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2021 08:33:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f47.google.com with SMTP id u16so8279880qvk.4 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:33:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=p2p+0Xv/Q2qZAnM6FiO1zzUwwN6S60rJ42i4vYPmgbM=; b=R9pRlogT2FzREtM7ef92keCFfVM/a3fXvu47jdBNYaETdjVU7Qj3BvUFnxP0GIQZ5Y nikiZ/0fsSW2sKfUZZF+yWmsCWZiT+FHU8PUalPnfCcqKmvJHYi/gDjxxGvIE9+tE0AP OaunOhW6JIXRkVTNGLqT0byNYP9Q381DsmhfLRSzLGGQw1nIZTyYuAjfmdnVwFiayGpr cbVCVykzcvM6U13JxTS/+l9N8hZVVjbDPVB6PFS2d3ztuJnaLQIjOvWOSH7Otgc7Atrg QpMh15tzbDZL/YxikNFdxEJyyC4J9JyYaluyn+7b2SzZx8xouDM1yLxwWH+NgpqvIwWx sG1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=p2p+0Xv/Q2qZAnM6FiO1zzUwwN6S60rJ42i4vYPmgbM=; b=c+qCgNfM2y7X2wiG1yq3Lw13l0vDBAehZFylR+6ie7jU1XMTXo3bW0j85eF1qhrJeU f50b6WPgUmYjo8WuH3ZsLaGw6e5t/8EQ7sNxl5MJsuFy6WmCUSGeOUsL2lXBidOgOoPl yR5kHT5+n5XHVD1oJHbFEu7y3q7cp36vGeFvPPiYj1s5NowFkq/0pD4T5tNEa3n0PAw1 aqHv7W/zzYi5B51jsfLPx1CTtjFh+zMW7yWtmGkAm3JWtpn5fkPOZ6yd1ChiXD7w16Wt QRxvq90r5c9HMPG69fPtEy2kCv2GVuxH/uDQuHyNGxu4WRlgVsAEc0enNiE1PhwP0zSD SXhg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531vRfGoOCx1bEOil1D18sa4/10J5T9nmcJoKnAGaG5RwAle8QO0 b7GI4yZY4EYuI5ck68f34XAbxPcQkrw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxtZsV24SUjdoalyOhrUVbBq/RNNF0j9CgNzikalG07Hzlw/q0ZzQfYgX78cgU3KPqsmUz9XQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:27e9:: with SMTP id jt9mr15565929qvb.131.1637965982694; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-74-102-50-111.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net. [74.102.50.111]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v2sm4213513qkp.72.2021.11.26.14.33.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:33:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alan Glasser Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 17:33:01 -0500 Message-Id: <0ABB7ECD-049B-4993-938F-82BC924E0F39@gmail.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: George Michaelson X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19B74) Subject: Re: [TUHS] PL/I stuff - was: Book Recommendation X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" In my experience 9 track tapes were not guaranteed to be readable after some= interval. In fact, a standard operations procedure was to copy important ta= pes to new media periodically.=20 I distinctly remember a rather catastrophic error in the AT&T Worldnet ISP m= ail system. It was running a third party email server product on a large clu= ster of big Sun boxes. A new release was installed. It had bugs and curdled a= ll of the customers=E2=80=99 data. It got backed out and a huge restore from= backup effort began, only to find that a bunch of recently written tapes we= re unreadable. Needless to say, we had unhappy customers and, if I remember= correctly, some very negative press in the WSJ and the NY Times.=20 - Alan > On Nov 24, 2021, at 9:06 PM, George Michaelson wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI have a relative who is an archivist, the sister-discipline to > librarians (Mike Lesk was at heart I think, in the library most the > time time. I say this, because I always think about Mike when the > topic of data and libraries comes up. He was nice to me at UCL and I > have a soft spot for anyone who was nice to me.) >=20 > Anyway, She tells me that the primary role of archivists is to help > people throw things away. >=20 > As a (sometime) scientist in (mostly) data, I know I have serial > hoarding disease. But I also know that NASA and other agencies only > found some things, by going back into the stacks to re-read old tapes, > without the "noise reduction filter" which had taken signal out. >=20 > So I feel your pain, loosing the tapes will have hurt. But I also know > along the path in time, Somebody had a role to play, curating the data > into the modern era. You're not alone, the BBC had this problem in > spades, re-using Umatic tape to save money. Ephemeral content which > turns out to be in some cases the probably only copy of what is data > to us now, but was junk to them then. >=20 > -G