From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28731 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2021 03:21:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Aug 2021 03:21:43 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 54A649CAA5; Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:21:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1821F9CA63; Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:21:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="pNEDoEVW"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7DDAE9CA63; Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:21:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-f48.google.com (mail-pj1-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 523399CA60 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2021 13:21:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-f48.google.com with SMTP id u13-20020a17090abb0db0290177e1d9b3f7so1969948pjr.1 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:21:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=FWSuh7rDmZ39ifc/llJp5qKXMYElv9+kZYNvfqVuHKw=; b=pNEDoEVW34bYaHhBMBqeD97A09mnZpggJU6s5lUp4yimWsTXJenvFt0hjr76yfmrvz noD74tHVoCp34e84I3SPV3BSy/2d6nclNrq1foJ62XowfCGQbK3m0i9SILF7pccHkzSI rsP6NgzlbShdMVqPubbonCkGRM0thw+tNuwXOPZA8t2w5XY0ILBXey1RMPKAf1eOyeKF 3geAufB41X9yXlB3D+UV8i5qeEzlZKMNdSz+lri9QhrO70giuFtlIP4i50haRT554AGl Cnf/Ad3Z3oi524xIX/5d4MdGv4n0hP6csuGvBsJRF0qMtvbgeRxMT4xcKSKtPt+oIp0l +kjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=FWSuh7rDmZ39ifc/llJp5qKXMYElv9+kZYNvfqVuHKw=; b=qRrKr9T8swpK+2VmYMiGlzujlWbc9uLaGS7xu32kUQS19GLX+x4JuwXtHSVqmCaFE3 WMJ8VO5hh1oiGGrWgC+IHusiZZ/z6h0zJrjIDw24NUfTISVKapDuZejDWRno70c267KU A8ZrtFM8FQRbhGidPyzi55P+vddZ82z1escapvOPYMUbRX34W+EP54AO+BAESbpPm7jA YPxlNsVtOlPSYESSUQt4x20kRqVYs4FSLFOyKFGb3OMQ3L7GEvdRA4Ph4k0nuUQTaOLF La6qk/XJIx0l+j/FoUcyifskzhg9d6RBVI2G9+m1NouFaF8raTULgm9wdZEd89ZlSUyQ A9HQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533k7YSd3oamNJWbkjKj/iaQo1KHt2e/mdPzRtvTDXplcYwdwkM8 GVnTPUBddYbt77xVsjGbRj+4QQBakD5xTg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzwgcD/AqrULwzNn4+nqcpNrOpW+35PPuq5QL7iyTXT3IEbFPfHbSUY5uQLpCYkfXtaJqsYmA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ff03:: with SMTP id ce3mr2141935pjb.232.1627960865408; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:8800:7c80:700:dc0c:86bc:8e4b:6ac8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p34sm13607469pfh.172.2021.08.02.20.21.04 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Thornton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:21:03 -0700 References: <202108030149.1731nIsp395841@darkstar.fourwinds.com> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <202108030149.1731nIsp395841@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Message-Id: <0C986DD0-8399-44DB-B6AD-D966E25975FD@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Systematic approach to command-line interfaces X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" > On Aug 2, 2021, at 6:49 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: >=20 > My two cents is that GUIs were the big driver for threads. I would > personally like to get rid of them as they're "the same but different" > with regards to processes. My preference would be to solve the > heaviness of processes problem. I'm not in the thick of that these > days, but I don't see it being solved in software alone; it's going > to take some serious hardware/software architecture work. Might be > easier to accomplish now that the world has pretty much settled on > the process model. Has it, though? Most of the stuff I=E2=80=99m working with right now is = either asyncio and Python, or Javascript, both of which are very much = about threading. I think there=E2=80=99s a lot of stuff that does work better with = multiple program counters for different things executing at the same = time with shared access to memory, although of course reasoning about = concurrency is always hard and having to manage locks on things that = shouldn=E2=80=99t be shared _right now_ is a lot of work and easy to get = wrong. I like Go and goroutines and channels as an intra-process communication = mechanism. My problem with processes, in the traditional sense, is that there ARE = often pieces of state you want to share between the things concurrently = acting on that state. A channel-like mechanism could work as IPC, but, = equally well, why _not_ have multiple things=E2=80=94we can call them = threads if you want=E2=80=94that can just see that shared state? Adam=