From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a21aad6e for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 04:36:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8FA5BA20A8; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:36:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828DEA1B10; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:35:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b=d4pk05m+; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A7CE8A1A9A; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:35:40 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 588 seconds by postgrey-1.35 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 14:35:39 AEST Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (pb-smtp20.pobox.com [173.228.157.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BBCAA1A90 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:35:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF242716A for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 00:25:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:references:in-reply-to:to; s=sasl; bh=wbWRed iZc3AfOB9d2SSQ6wcRqao=; b=d4pk05m+bti2wHQvYUviNIT/rWCXcDtDAN5zai GwuC4E6RjWdL+QS+dY6qOLDvq1nXiKli3KScwVVyeYmOJ7XH23vk0g2fsypWlwIg Al9sHBU0wXRv57vJKxy6dLQTegjpDNpmXJcFIOijg3S0zUGbwNjZHmICJZPcM+PS DKJXs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:references:in-reply-to:to; q=dns; s=sasl; b= YpG4Kz/TIck0XEuWl0jBErE+4JG7BBn2xfpjOuWmEQHpq1WaeUM8HN44XtglZnLo HS8u6MHy7TJS2iZVpPdmYVugnAzyy7XUkgI6s8uuoULr1hIZmt+AUBKM4Pd9XdEL o2JvLzVSzGdQndVr8KoP4EjvWjRyWfBtuAGYhIqW4N0= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C1427169 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 00:25:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) Received: from [192.168.1.86] (unknown [108.226.107.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD85927168 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 00:25:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: "Jeffrey H. Johnson" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 00:25:44 -0400 Message-Id: <0D39179A-9133-4388-ABEC-DCD769E9CD24@pobox.com> References: <20180901232537.615A418C09E@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <10B61FE8-1418-4201-A782-76E07BD2D34A@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <10B61FE8-1418-4201-A782-76E07BD2D34A@gmail.com> To: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16A5366a) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 441AD480-AE68-11E8-AD9E-F5C31241B9FE-32570403!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Subject: Re: [TUHS] Public access multics X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" While the best loved feature is probably the pervasive dynamic linking, whic= h is still unrivaled, and the security features (ring brackets, AIM (multile= vel labeling), and ACLs) which are the most famous, a feature that isn't bui= lt in to Unix and is constantly being reinvented that was available in Multi= cs is the ability to easily set aside a CPU and some memory and disk, while l= eaving the system in operation, and start another separate instance to do de= velopment work, and then when the work is done, be reconfigured to merge the= system back into one instance, without disrupting production work. =20 That dynamic reconfiguration was one original design specifications of the s= ystem, as opposed to being added later. Much of what makes Multics wonderful= to me is just how amazingly sturdily it's engineered and how complete the i= mplementations of these ideas are. Another thing to comes to mind immediately is how hierarchical the system is= . For example, users are registered on to projects, and a project administra= tor can be delegated the task of registering and deregistering user accounts= and managing the system resources such as disk quota and access to printers= and other physical resources for their project.=20 The system administrator can manage the resources assigned to projects, and t= he project administration handles how that's further carved up amongst the u= sers. You can have similar granularity in assigning the distribution of resources s= uch as CPU and memory use, by using the workload management features to ensu= re that high priority tasks/users/projects will always have needed resources= available, preempting lower priority tasks if necessary.=20 The I/O system, (while not exceedingly elegant - see iox_), far exceeds what= is available in Unix today, but by design. The reputation of Multics as a 'complex' system is, in my experience, well d= eserved, but that complexity does not mean it's a terrible system to use or a= dminister. I find it quite refreshing and it almost never feels dated. -- Jeff https://ban.ai/multics > On Sep 2, 2018, at 12:05 AM, Will Senn wrote: >=20 > On Sep 1, 2018, at 6:25 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >=20 >>> From: Will Senn >>=20 >>> I was thinking that Multics was a failed predecessor of unix >>> ... straighten me out :) >>=20 >> I'd start with: >>=20 >> https://multicians.org/myths.html >=20 > Noel, Fascinating read. I must=E2=80=99ve read at least a good handful of t= he references leading to the myths described in the writeup. As usual, I can= trust the folks who lived history to remember it more clearly than many rev= isionists writing about it later. >=20 > Thanks for sharing. >=20 > Now, I=E2=80=99m wondering what awesome features Multics had that we=E2=80= =99re still lacking in modern *nices... anything as amazing as say, my favor= ite filesystem, ZFS? >=20 > Will