From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25862 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2023 21:08:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Mar 2023 21:08:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA81413EA; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 07:08:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42a.google.com (mail-pf1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6335841382 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 07:08:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id fd25so8502357pfb.1 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:08:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; t=1678741689; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=xiXcsf4y/2ZNCSDC9mqYK/Y6Gns/jEkXj6lSbGbXqno=; b=bHNk45dDFwifcIi0dC9rR6uxeETydvGUa+2gxe/lB2gm8e+9CEvS+P17nA/nH7hV5j 1xtLVyuXRAF5c9lv0aMU5v7hpGn8QrWiVD2iOVpEU/tbVGwZxezfE/fy945iX6NryIb4 do8PWzOWhFIsFClijWqZmb9nynOcv/lfaoobX+0rL+mc3/QO2tD5GxlnrlAwF1x4Zw3I etfp2EZ//IAYDpQlcLG1SZTw377IBPMcQiROknrheCEzzn+tYuGR4ag8oSWz/m1dYBoC 0GcLeKmdYqwvi1Rt6cq++raNZgwKeDg4/iKH6s7avILkAEiAKBLuwdADEC7eB1Bv23sx TpLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678741689; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xiXcsf4y/2ZNCSDC9mqYK/Y6Gns/jEkXj6lSbGbXqno=; b=YONNDEEmxW9el75/Hz5K3agQWg54ljZNWKhr3nJ8rqBdbKIeVtPOMVLuDf1dCm60/u zF6kION2wDkUO9TjPvHnw0DKOlhYhihl+mgIX4/CVnSSoEayIX/A58vFGkZL7/ZiFjOK zcfjYmW6GxkyLL1ihrsUR/5+e35thqfrYBkp1d9MyBBAkD1E1F07UN0maItLlFHgyVzy 4PwuSQsvmRBhCCtXK1d4I2o95Zq3jghUo8HEIiZiMRWx6yRqlw31qyUQvo/X0+Luln9W WdUb0NNJ6wxxOxQY0quLtsxN+G9b4MwW+NfOx2KoUw1nQLp2TjJ6i7AMW5WN13Vu6Ldo QKVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXmSUm6yGUTazIT+lkt8EzTU+vcH31aTbHfomkMy8XkxCNKFC5W OmPgLCMG1BoRWctkFhVNJAAxKvBUhcGFymGwRM8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/uxNz7lXPvMeLl3Hj/9OIVr3UXio0kjZMS3nHQEbPow5eaM97hQRfntdXtz1Sf30EIqKOeiA== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:96a2:0:b0:624:5b4b:e09c with SMTP id g2-20020aa796a2000000b006245b4be09cmr3913896pfk.13.1678741689644; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j13-20020aa783cd000000b005d3730383a7sm123247pfn.220.2023.03.13.14.08.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.400.51.1.1\)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 14:07:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <10C77771-5232-4DBB-8685-ADC38C5E8350@iitbombay.org> References: <20230310113708.AD55518C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> To: Paul Winalski X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.400.51.1.1) Message-ID-Hash: WAB2UCVRX57SISUYRVS4VSUGHHBAXJ57 X-Message-ID-Hash: WAB2UCVRX57SISUYRVS4VSUGHHBAXJ57 X-MailFrom: bakul@iitbombay.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Alejandro Colomar , TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [TUHS]: C dialects (was: I can't drive 55: "GOTO considered harmful" 55th anniversary) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:00 PM, Paul Winalski = wrote: >=20 > On 3/13/23, Clem Cole wrote: >>=20 >> Frankly, I'd probably rather see ISO drop a bunch of the stuff they = are now >> requiring and fall back at least to K&R2 -- keep it simple. >=20 > I agree. Every language has toxic features--things that seemed like > good ideas at the time but turn out to have been mistakes when they're > better understood. Every good programming shop has its rules > concerning certain language features or practices that are not allowed > in the code, usually for safety or maintainability reasons. You can't drop features from a widely deployed language; but while we are dreaming, what I'd like to see is a total *ban* on any and all optimizations. What you get is what you see!