[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jeremy C. Reed]

Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or 
a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus 
needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator?

Or any login shell available?

(For my tests, I want to use the real thing instead of a *BSD from the 
time of the 4.4BSD-lite merge.)

Thanks

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jochen Kunz]

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT)
"Jeremy C. Reed" <reed at reedmedia.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or 
> a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus 
> needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator?
I can't remember exactely. Its been some years, but I did somthing like
the folowing to get 4.4BSD-Lite on a HP9000-433t instaled:
Boot NetBSD diskless. (Must have been in the 1.4 to 1.6 days.)
disklabel sd0
newfs /dev/rsd0a
mount /dev/sd0a /mnt
cd /mnt
tar xzf /nfsroot/4.4BSD-dist.tar.gz
/mnt/usr/mdec/installboot or somthing like this.

I.e. basicly I did a complete manual OS install using NetBSD as the
install environement and 4.4BSD as the distribution source.

Maybe I used something like
http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru/4BSD/Distributions/4.4BSD-Alpha/rootdump.gz
as the initial disk contence. Can't remember.

The resulting disk was bootable, but the old 4.4BSD gradualy damaged
the file system due to differences in the NetBSD ffs or disklabel
layout. But it did run long enough to do about the same procedure as
above to a second disk. As that disk was completely instaled with the
old 4.4BSD stuff it did run well and without problems.
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Tim Newsham]

perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another
44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native  install.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT)
> "Jeremy C. Reed" <reed at reedmedia.net> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have installation instructions (with binary distribution) or
>> a ready-to-use image for an historical 4.4BSD (encumbered or -Lite plus
>> needed parts or -Lite2) with gxemul, tme, or other emulator?
> I can't remember exactely. Its been some years, but I did somthing like
> the folowing to get 4.4BSD-Lite on a HP9000-433t instaled:
> Boot NetBSD diskless. (Must have been in the 1.4 to 1.6 days.)
> disklabel sd0
> newfs /dev/rsd0a
> mount /dev/sd0a /mnt
> cd /mnt
> tar xzf /nfsroot/4.4BSD-dist.tar.gz
> /mnt/usr/mdec/installboot or somthing like this.
>
> I.e. basicly I did a complete manual OS install using NetBSD as the
> install environement and 4.4BSD as the distribution source.
>
> Maybe I used something like
> http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru/4BSD/Distributions/4.4BSD-Alpha/rootdump.gz
> as the initial disk contence. Can't remember.
>
> The resulting disk was bootable, but the old 4.4BSD gradualy damaged
> the file system due to differences in the NetBSD ffs or disklabel
> layout. But it did run long enough to do about the same procedure as
> above to a second disk. As that disk was completely instaled with the
> old 4.4BSD stuff it did run well and without problems.
> --
>
>
> \end{Jochen}
>
> \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jochen Kunz]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:22:58 -1000
Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:

> perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another
> 44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native  install.
Ahhhmmmm. ??? That was what I did: I used a 4.4BSD, bootstraped by
NetBSD, to bootstrap 4.4BSD. This resulted in a natively instaled
4.4BSD that run well. But it must be about 10 years ago when I did
this. So I can't give exact details.
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Tim Newsham]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1082 bytes --]

I mean that after you used netbsd to create
and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting
44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system.
Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd,
not one created by netbsd...
or am I misunderstanding something?

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:22:58 -1000
> Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> perhaps after doing netbsd -> 44bsd you should have done another
>> 44bsd bootstrapped -> 44bsd native  install.
> Ahhhmmmm. ??? That was what I did: I used a 4.4BSD, bootstraped by
> NetBSD, to bootstrap 4.4BSD. This resulted in a natively instaled
> 4.4BSD that run well. But it must be about 10 years ago when I did
> this. So I can't give exact details.
> --
>
>
> \end{Jochen}
>
> \ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



-- 
Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jochen Kunz]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:37:25 -1000
Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:

> I mean that after you used netbsd to create
> and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting
> 44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system.
> Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd,
> not one created by netbsd...
> or am I misunderstanding something?
Obviously yes. :-)
I did exactely what you describe:
I used NetBSD to install the first 4.4BSD.
Then I booted this first 4.4BSD and used the first 4.4BSD to install
the second 4.4BSD. The second 4.4BSD was OK.
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Nick Downing]

Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of
4.4BSDLite?  Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else?
cheers, Nick

On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 23:07 +0200, Jochen Kunz wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:37:25 -1000
> Tim Newsham <tim.newsham at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I mean that after you used netbsd to create
> > and install 44bsd, you should have used the resulting
> > 44bsd to create and install a new 44bsd system.
> > Then it would have been a FFS created by 44bsd,
> > not one created by netbsd...
> > or am I misunderstanding something?
> Obviously yes. :-)
> I did exactely what you describe:
> I used NetBSD to install the first 4.4BSD.
> Then I booted this first 4.4BSD and used the first 4.4BSD to install
> the second 4.4BSD. The second 4.4BSD was OK.

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jochen Kunz]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000
Nick Downing <downing.nick at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of
> 4.4BSDLite?  Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else?
Most likely I used 4.4BSD-Lite2.
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Nick Downing]

OK, I hadn't been aware of the significance of the 2 in 4.4BSD-Lite2, so
I understand it contains a CSRG version of the startup code, etc that
was originally from AT&T and was left out of 4.4BSD-Lite?  Is it
anything to do with Jolitz's work on 386BSD?  Does it have anything
else?  Searching threw up a few results on multiprocessor locking so
maybe it contains additional features as well as just the missing code?
cheers, Nick

On Fri, 2012-04-20 at 08:34 +0200, Jochen Kunz wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000
> Nick Downing <downing.nick at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of
> > 4.4BSDLite?  Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else?
> Most likely I used 4.4BSD-Lite2.

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jeremy C. Reed]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Nick Downing wrote:

> OK, I hadn't been aware of the significance of the 2 in 4.4BSD-Lite2, so
> I understand it contains a CSRG version of the startup code, etc that
> was originally from AT&T and was left out of 4.4BSD-Lite?  Is it
> anything to do with Jolitz's work on 386BSD?  Does it have anything
> else?  Searching threw up a few results on multiprocessor locking so
> maybe it contains additional features as well as just the missing code?
> cheers, Nick

It doesn't appear to include the needed code. From looking at huge diff, 
I don't see any additions identified from Jolitz/Telemuse/386BSD. (For 
example, Lite already had Jolitz i386 code and Lite2 only had minimal 
changes to the code.)  I quote from Cover.rel2 document for Lite2:

``It will not be possible to compile or run this software without a 
pre-existing system that is already installed and running. In addition, 
the distribution does not include sources for a complete system. It 
includes source code and manual pages for the C library, approximately 
90% of the utilities distributed as part of 4.4BSD, and most of the 
kernel (the same subsystems that were deleted in Net/2 are still missing 
in 4.4BSD-Lite Release 2 (support for executing files, doing physical 
I/O, managing the buffer cache, handling process tracing, terminal 
character I/O, and doing accounting).''

The diff is huge. Lite2 has many changes: ``includes the copy editing 
work done for the Usenix/O'Reilly manuals as well as numerous bug fixes 
and enhancements that have been accumulated in the year since the 
release of 4.4BSD-Lite. Of particular interest are the changes needed to 
port the system to 64-bit architectures, important security enhancements 
to TCP/IP, and much improved functionality for the union and 
log-structured filesystems.'' (See 
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/current-users/1995/03/23/0008.html or the 
Cover.rel2 document.)   I think is also incorporates many changes 
already done by BSDI, NetBSD, and FreeBSD.

By the way, the TUHS page at 
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.4BSD lists some files 
removed to create Lite. Actually per filenames, only the sysv_shm.c and 
shm.h and cpio.c files were removed. (cpio replaced with pax.) All were 
modified.  (That TUHS page also has two mistakes: lists /sys/sys/buf.h 
twice and misspells /sys/ufs/inode.h as indode.h.)

The Restricted Files also listed: sys/kern/kern_physio.c, 
sys/kern/vfs_bio.c, and sys/sys/tty.h and they are still included in 
Lite. Probably because files were not included in historical AT&T code, 
because newer USL code did include them, lots rewritten and so if any 
code was reused it became insignificant and was agreed on.  vfs_bio.c 
was mentioned in a declaration stating is was based on published 
pseudo-code.

Where is the actual list of files missing in Lite (that are in 
Encumbered)?

[TUHS] 4.4BSD installed image or login shell?

[Jochen Kunz]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:06:35 +1000
Nick Downing <downing.nick at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you explain how you managed to make a running system out of
> 4.4BSDLite?  Did you obtain the `missing pieces' somewhere else?
I thik I used some distribution from the CSRG archived CDs.
Sorry. I really can't remember. It was 10 years ago.

FWIW: I booted the machine and it says:
$ uname -a
4.4BSD krumm.dinner41.de 4.4BSD-Lite 4.4BSD-Lite #166: Tue Jun 14 12:26:26 PDT 1994     mkm at vangogh.CS.Berkeley.EDU:/usr/src/sys/compile/HP300  hp300
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}