From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15078 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2021 16:04:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Sep 2021 16:04:45 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 02D459CAB5; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:04:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481B69CAB3; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:04:18 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=yahoo.com header.i=@yahoo.com header.b="iiNWKW+N"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4FFD79CAB3; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:04:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sonic316-11.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic316-11.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.130.121]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E9FB9CAB2 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 02:04:15 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631894654; bh=pNrkAe6nrJNVOTyVmfMqBKlqpun2msga8ygQ1RPF+RE=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=iiNWKW+NABDtK3eGuJgjvmcHoVJmemviBVKQNm/fDZgI2SGBoEZklp6TaNLYP0faO6NcmTZKJ+xfCJME3C0zIF/kvpafpTpcJADNIaXBUHsesm1xKChuwFnCrOqm1p6pq1yk+krERc6WbS97cekp+EAKFCBUtkyxUi4hgSs07oPtjqp1KaGTvDyo7LI4gnlm4Zo+Xat3lA46dEGQ+U7T+KLK56TO5LtZ7vOO/XisOMakERW65/phj6mhivMbQBcHq3aRVF3IQ2edibrlFn0V4469Z1D7fQE0pPUIlNSsKSUTyZWTMDkampscf94LVgW4uQ4cF6hw2iAiAGD+MClRVQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631894654; bh=5yXv8d9ZMkH9J+F1Y8AFvBlVw9zLHValHGJsJa4z/q9=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=fXG/o6tJOjawyjuXi+wCxjR4c/sruWyfCyvfdQSW2hs0pEPFpfQd0G3+doJ7zZeT/xaErcyIzp2yx+sAixTtUVx5RZ8DsofwVdqT0yKkwm0j+5aD8FkfnE0YIJKaoRRjwmz/UkeS8YRdPczWCtEOCoQbFuefBJq3lrKZ7vqcsMyj9LoFqNQr8ikwHyjYDZBHrp7RqhqvYyyrlUfFzDE8XlWVfg6pnFRrxBR+g6bm3jgSI+H4oi/e7laZIHb2lxTMQcRcIQ9teYzX9bK/Jr+3btoZeULZTzq5vjgJ41Os1Yn2YOvyjURyjSk8a/1Tm3HI9EyMGxUAeYZjevydKmucPA== X-YMail-OSG: UfkADzcVM1n1BarJcGGm1xJP3xW.rkJdp2yeSmcJu4_elMwN2rpRcjXcxqqKuBG J6i9nexHVCGIcoyDD4tsKfC2D4D8vjWmmaP1ewMyVaJo8DBqnTr_p4_z7d5v_3hzItcX8bytavMG LYaet1TsJM4emunQPpaZ7ZVjnHT3gG3aD.zq8GYOGq0crK8uX.SbbSXImZNKCdA1fJj7ERdfoqkd P7gc7zpXhUBjxESsg_HBFggOKMChTYjfT67M9XPaJKGdkDW.J7A2yPl_QHIftukagpd2QnNYsHGS hS6C1vYi8OSlf7iWbutXcTsZhCKMEZ3W893iOfZoYAIO2SPZeWi6Obtgt76GBT5Qw3BJjIuySDLH LWThzhbSA_IHoMWzXFZ2WEJ0SJFWeYEnehWfE8tJG1rwS8azEJhymTFE4hXtPdRBeZ38TLMIibSP UfX33XSQEiJRB7THSFzSkgrbXwyKdkpFokx.92hxFmV7lXXYG6nMgMiC8thPJ7YZ1f1l1_D0YIEB NQs1l6UZpjcxc8Ri37EhgDmm0aa_n51GXywCJiiSlRQwHi2cNKso5EfqgDjxmDS3etzkL_27TL0D 7K.PbySBIV.Bhvnhk73AOkww9hcUpo2SwF__LQpea4Lrt6Nfay55jD1aJUxgOAnjf8J5VqqpuvAW AapB8wnPQVIVokD1MRNJNSDt0ssDQYpIDwQA5YGk2JTA9vFVVbbb4SIgvAvtfHEDmrlc6BjevJrv BbPt_iII.eQD8aN9sz50kISH8HQb9qUQ3ni7pZ8CUjwFwTRXXJD4sD7_aVtn.N27tgmqanzzZ2nn 9saTBXijktkGMxKvQBF9RlsE.G5QAodN.w2IyXfTf370RCYxYf_EVoDezx8CilB.N4MJxFaB8eZY TM_XL3flnvslTg33sdxD_e9uY1tTnudpSxXw0QZbLcHOgFnLjxtGGQrQwV.FoQ9zEuW0UKWg6AGk saPkhy0bmyLACvXHgFAMWYgRcScSakXZlLyzTPBRMgyiUvjZ6K0FVvo8xVi608qF.L4nxfJAL98S fbTobJ9r_QK0LISwvQLKr3JaB_O13dQhTCYghkltP4GltpDTAZlFQoSVaZzILot3zVKK0sGaoxHy x83tvo_H5YDWVsIfqrba2QIc8CBTUW.SW8q2nd0kANQ2bcqiUw5BBdzR.fCxRtDivq7M8dqn3URt AE3SS2AZUmBNYLaxouXU3zAb2O29d_TlKaBVb3CPvAMiqmUjGQNCRglzew_PmoXYDsebGdQQVJF8 8qfDY7gM.Yvs0qyEfrP3VsKRhM51042KKmo5BMdJikLbq8Z.U2YOYwSlDLpi1eSnnlB5byDYYdOJ X0TaBWc2CWcwRs1fwRQa9Z.1ANOBJAFnslViTStGmFgjPYP7yTzZoOjnNGKssAznQfh18Hw7RgCk v_jPWTM5Qbd3MZC9cXV2wYmSI6BHI45wyM129sL_joNGcwMbgH8XoPiU5g0J..cY9gNIyNTiOyBq OL.w7lqrVaHgMgR8l3G6JDqutPkG7sr4qCgwqcskxT2XyUx83CQflTWES8r6ZZM2FdAQbW1rV0z5 FMfONLkrYUwFnWchDZn_Sb0S5hEuRZMt6.FkMID.uQoEcNtXALgz0H5NwV2Skm_918SCNQKlMUe. enMccsO1K7f6PpllGihgZFZNQTHMVyz_m_SE43feDmRO7kAZva_qgPw_qcZyqw.V3mT53NQiv9aQ d7mHo8raQs0lCAABTI3TuiuBz6aNcNEF3fGsMdzd8Czt5SIfhIzhs26IQvLDF3suFP..rmMi9peU 0BpJZ28RTWZNIqHq8ZgabtDG30DBnBxmk2xnMW7XIy4Emhn7aGqcyHkXI6vAExn3wTdDLd4U5VWA Fy2MxGLPQZKSK7bQo0IAZQsMCPUyS_t2MuwgEa7S0qmzCVBcEu7BvQJL6cg5fkkNDdNtMPfMEmXI PJe74_EZJtFg3ow4Nnq25wY_DdfzIMqHgdXu0WWDk1W9lRZy2nuZVe4X2hfZ519LLSnFzEg5aHGx m5ouv_oHiyKoIjRziG3PRLR8UVkKn.F_WtDgA.N1a_STWcCNDXdk25sSqx4TRtOcj3rBKm3L2eGV eOt7pCTt.xp7Mrbyzdi7SKVyZTcQmymF2y9nJxGceu7aE0Jea6dvajxI8L1p.uw0YeTX6yMgbNQq oYQH5U_sjNjLq4wR8RdtxbTG5sUlj0v4CnnYcGxSyiZOTehLLzZRd9U6_2vHNr0Y7ofx58Y4MwhZ unlq54tK7MtZX8bqRZ9u29.NcRJZZlPEaxTgws7vbWVKE2w-- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:04:14 +0000 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC) To: "tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org" Message-ID: <1359803079.736350.1631894652157@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <2007825471.713023.1631887763341.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2007825471.713023.1631887763341@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_736349_1066209439.1631894652155" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19013 YMailNorrin Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix for PDP11/20 w/o mmu or paging option X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Roland via TUHS Reply-To: Roland Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" ------=_Part_736349_1066209439.1631894652155 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Clem, FYI:=C2=A0 The KS11 MMU for the 11/20 was built by CSS and was not on the p= roduct list as it were. To my knowledge, no hardware or prints of it surviv= e.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've been told it was much more similar to the MMU in the K= A10 than the scheme eventually done for the 11/45/55/70 and the 11/40 class= systems - but I think Noel has done more investigation than I have.=C2=A0 = So if others have more info, please chime in. There is a KT11B paging option that makes the PDP11/20 a 18 bit machine. It= looks a bit like the TC11 DECtape controller. I've got the schematics from= the internet. But I have no idea how it compares to the later MMU units fr= om the software perspective. As Warner points out the oldest code base we have is Fifth Edition.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 I'm not sure if the KS11 code is still there.=C2=A0 I did not think = so.=C2=A0 I thought it ran on 11/40 and 11/45. Yes, that is what I found too. V5 expects an 11/40 with at least 18 bits me= mory address space. The V1 work was for a PDP-7 and is before the first=C2=A011/20 was secured.= =C2=A0 The point is that I think there is a hole in the the=C2=A0SW we have= . Too bad, but you never know what is still hidden in some attics... As for RK03 vs. RK05=C2=A0 -- I think=C2=A0I can help a little.=C2=A0 RK02/= RK03 used an RK-11C.=C2=A0 I'm fairly sure that the RK05,=C2=A0 used the RK= 11-D controller.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The '72 peripherals' handbook describes the fo= rmer and the '76 the later.=C2=A0 But if you believe the handbook, both sup= ported 203 cylinders and 2.45M bytes/disk with 512 byte sectors.=C2=A0 The = difference seems to have been in drive performance. Yes the RK03 was the Diablo 31 with a DEC label on it. 100% compatible with= RK11D and RK05. You can swap the packs between these drives as well... So = I'm hoping for a disk image for such a drive... =F0=9F=98=8A Regards, Roland =20 ------=_Part_736349_1066209439.1631894652155 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Clem,

<= div id=3D"ydp30958e0yiv1880992366">
FYI:  The KS11 MMU for the 11/20 was built by CSS and was not on the product=20 list as it were. To my knowledge, no hardware or prints of it survive. = ;   I've been told it was much more similar to the MMU in the KA10 than the scheme eventually done for the 11/45/55/70 and the 11/40 class systems - but I think Noel has done more investigation than I have.  So if othe= rs have more info, please chime in.
=
Th= ere is a KT11B paging option that makes the PDP11/20 a 18 bit machine. It=20 looks a bit like the TC11 DECtape controller. I've got the schematics=20 from the internet. But I have no idea how it compares to the later MMU=20 units from the software perspective.

As Warner points out the oldest code base we have is Fifth Edition.  &nb= sp; I'm not sure if the KS11 code is still there.  I did not think so.  = I=20 thought it ran on 11/40 and 11/45.

Y= es, that is what I found too. V5 expects an 11/40 with at least 18 bits mem= ory address space.

The V1 work was for a PDP-7 and is before the first 11/20 was secured.&nb= sp; The point is that I think there is a hole in the the SW we have.

Too bad, but you never know what is still hi= dden in some attics...

As for RK03= vs. RK05  -- I think I can help a little.  RK02/RK03 used an RK-11C.  I'm fairly sure that the RK05,  used = the=20 RK11-D controller.   The '72 peripherals' handbook describes the = former=20 and the '76 the later.  But if you believe the handbook, both supporte= d=20 203 cylinders and 2.45M bytes/disk with 512 byte sectors.  The=20 difference seems to have been in drive performance.
=
Yes the RK03 was the Diablo 31 with a DEC label on it. 100% compatible with RK11D and RK05. You can swap the packs between these drives as well...=20 So I'm hoping for a disk image for such a drive... =F0=9F=98=8A

Regards, Roland

= ------=_Part_736349_1066209439.1631894652155--