From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24316 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2023 16:58:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Jan 2023 16:58:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3265423E5; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:58:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f180.google.com (mail-oi1-f180.google.com [209.85.167.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6442423E3 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:58:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f180.google.com with SMTP id p185so8027028oif.2 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:58:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bNaPOl22DHhwv1Fcpaz+G+h6z5FksDexVVh9ljthS9M=; b=pF4tlzwcbgq07VDHXX4/kkJjvirbz3otsHllroF7LihC46yb2d5UhWPlH3G2KTizQ1 l9PSYhJsG3o3fMhPFcmcacJJZWfo1aWbmgS/6bcVkT7uzaYxhMZNqgQE52wLOZPwFs3J 3/rYkhJJRBxQbBhJ4hBFHx/hp6kdpblxE+Vjf+Yi3JHwjmqC2gaXTfwxzGpb9hsBmSeZ mZyTfTzDN8NFP1nxG+ys9vCSK9VC7X7quTNrDt7m75h5qZx8mHEuEilvByLkLdl845hH WAYMsHj9wxU2U/M6IU8fSB4gt2Yy1FvpaqBkqQEHfL0zT2mneRca7ibMulq0hOenhet2 AGug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bNaPOl22DHhwv1Fcpaz+G+h6z5FksDexVVh9ljthS9M=; b=Dc3S6Ug8RvvoLLqx+EjH3zfocW8z8ESJl9Bvf3kpssX7fubQ/+Guuq6zFDORWfuhNg GtGYvp7fqiFbtcyPa6d2Kddf26FsoipBQZgK+Hs96dfS8Ij4HmAttD0jAv9UJsCKI5mb z54LPylpVLS2bs1c/o1YkODLQlWU1VnEz0noGnOEzJN3ILRcqXta+EMEFdAI0xpVfnOJ 1tYwNB/CkQ9o7XBxARiUNP12rPJMp505xWXBULLXSPjqr5XsHuy3txJJKnwS9GPIUEi2 +VO2pHwIoLjyyDEcPNF1+vQIQ31nOEbSGu0ZJWcqCu40hYmfHO6HCB2K0JJcf3yjaKxA +bfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpyD9DwU8rngZq3KPC6FB7s57OP+aMlOWcNcpLnWDeosXtzPccY rqaMipc2HAr7LTI2ICFSi97dY3/KLiw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvOcWYXrBzzkdMbmJdGSO1VibNHMCtnNK5Q4GgVfTA1RZS5KIv/tEuqzJ1y1HZQXKEawpftyw== X-Received: by 2002:aca:2214:0:b0:36d:f6c4:1860 with SMTP id b20-20020aca2214000000b0036df6c41860mr141312oic.34.1674061039865; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.0.2] ([145.14.135.198]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w15-20020a056808018f00b00364747aafcasm10431062oic.14.2023.01.18.08.57.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:57:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13b87744-306e-7ecc-a0d0-9305d4b7d958@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:57:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US To: Larry McVoy References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> <2f00f9a6-c57d-8490-4066-931ec6e191cd@gmail.com> <20230118164242.GG2964@mcvoy.com> From: Will Senn In-Reply-To: <20230118164242.GG2964@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID-Hash: 4AWVMTOSH4QINLSCW7EDCWNXHTAQWS22 X-Message-ID-Hash: 4AWVMTOSH4QINLSCW7EDCWNXHTAQWS22 X-MailFrom: will.senn@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Pretty sure Netflix CDN is still using it as are other vendors in need of stable and fast. Just cuz my neighbor doesn't use it, or joe website hoster doesn't use it doesn't relegate it to the nobody uses it pile. On 1/18/23 10:42 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > Wishful thinking. An OS needs critical mass in terms of developers. > The BSD efforts divided their devs by having multiple efforts. It > was very obvious from the beginning that Linux was getting all the > developers. Go look at the rate of commits to Linux vs the rate > of commits to {Net,Open,Free,DragonFly,etc}BSD. > > They aren't dead as in nobody does anything to them but they are > dead in that very few people use them. > > Look, Linux users are tiny compared to Windows / MacOS, I think the > desktop users is around 1%. BSD users are even more tiny than Linux. > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:36:48AM -0600, Will Senn wrote: >> Hi Larry, >> >> I disagree, but only time will tell. I don't think BSD is dead is really a >> fair statement, unless you're referring to the actual distribution. As a >> line, I think it's still viable (I run it in several flavors and it works, >> much more reliably than most linuxes which I also run in multiple flavors). >> That said, everybody :) it seems, seems to be on the Linux is the future >> bandwagon with seemingly only a few of us holdouts. Just a couple of days >> ago I spun up a TrueNAS instance and it was glorious - of course it was >> CORE, try that with SCALE :). >> >> It does seem like the wave favors Windows, Mac, and Linux... But, just cuz >> they're popular doesn't mean the less popular OSes are dead (I say this as I >> gaze fondly over towards my KIM-1 clone and think of Monitor. >> >> Will >> >> On 1/18/23 10:19 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: >>> Pretty unrealistic to expect the users to suddenly have the time to do >>> kernel dev. Solaris opened sourced itself and it's dead. >>> >>> It's a lot of work to maintain and evolve an OS. Windows, MacOS, and >>> Linux seem like the future. >>> >>> As for BSD, they pretty much killed themselves by all the in-fighting and >>> the lack of someone like Linus. That was obvious 30 years ago and it >>> hasn't changed. That's why I switched from BSD to Linux. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 04:10:34PM +0000, segaloco wrote: >>>> I just hope we'll see some attempts at opening up these code bases as time goes on. Seeing as they're no longer going to be pushing new copies and will eventually ramp down maintenance releases, opening up the source would give their end users the ability to potentially float their own improvements if they can't immediately migrate to Linux or BSD. That said, security implications of course, don't want to just hand bad actors a code base to comb for memory unsafety in. >>>> >>>> Also this article is BSD erasure :(, no mentions of the big three save that OpenServer and Darwin have chunks of FreeBSD in them. I guess Berkeley is just chopped liver... >>>> >>>> - Matt G. >>>> >>>> ------- Original Message ------- >>>> On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 7:14 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> It makes perfect sense, it's a repeated story, commercial loses out >>>>> to free. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 08:13:13AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Interestingly enough, Phil Hughes, who founded Linux Journal >>>>>> in the early 1990s, predicted that this would happen one day. >>>>>> This was in a private conversation we had. I thought he >>>>>> was crazy, but he was right. >>>>>> >>>>>> arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/17/unix_is_dead/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FYI. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arnold >>>>> -- >>>>> --- >>>>> Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat