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From: Eric Allman <tuhs@eric.allman.name>
To: Jon Forrest <nobozo@gmail.com>, tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] SCCS
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 09:45:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1457a2d6-2f17-482d-e4f7-ace439d34ca8@neophilic.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a0231faa-8ad9-fa51-4b24-9854beb21210@gmail.com>

Actually I preferred SCCS for all the reasons that Larry has described.
 But SCCS was encumbered --- usable at the university, but not in a
commercial environment --- so it wasn't available at Britton-Lee at a
price we could afford, and RCS was pretty much the only other game in town.

Tichy was comparing against SCCS version 1, as described in the paper
"The source code control system" (Marc Rochkind, IEEE Transactions on
Software Engineering 1, 4, December 1975), which used forward deltas ---
very slow as your history got big.  I spent considerable time trying to
convince him that the version of SCCS in current production was as Larry
described, where any version could be read in linear time, but he wasn't
hearing anything that went against his beliefs.  So far as I know, he
never even looked at or measured the system he was comparing RCS to.

Today I probably wouldn't use SCCS, mostly because of the atomic update
problem (which was still broken in RCS, but fixed in CVS).  At this
point I'm using git because, well, all the cool kids are doing it, and
since I work at the university I have to go with the flow sometimes.
And git has some nice properties.  On the other hand, I have shot myself
in the foot with git more times than the sum of all other screwups with
all other source management systems combined.

eric


On 2019-09-11 21:28, Jon Forrest wrote:
> 
> 
> I used both RCS and SCCS in the early days (e.g. 1985 - 1991). RCS was
> what we used at Britton-Lee in the group that Eric Allman was part of.
> SCCS is what we used at Sybase as it was gaining popularity. This was
> so long ago that I don't remember all the details but I found that
> RCS was much easier to use, especially in an environment that didn't
> do much merging. Instead we used labels (or tags, I forget what they
> were called) to mark which files were part of which release. Doing
> this was much harder in SCCS, which contributed to the mess that
> was Sybase software engineering.
> 
> Of course, all this could be explained by Eric's deep knowledge
> of RCS, and the lack of somebody with Eric's knowledge at Sybase.
> But, to me, an early adopter of source code control who wasn't
> overly interested in speed, RCS was much easier to use.
> 
> Jon

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 85+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-09  6:25 [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-09  6:36 ` arnold
2019-09-10 15:16 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11  0:28   ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11  3:53   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-11 15:36     ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 16:55       ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was " Charles H Sauer
2019-09-12 19:31         ` Kevin Bowling
2019-09-12 20:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 21:09             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses - Series/1 NUXI Ronald Natalie
2019-09-12 21:31             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-12 22:30             ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:12               ` reed
2019-09-12 23:22                 ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:29               ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses Warren Toomey
2019-09-13  7:06                 ` arnold
2019-09-13  8:30                 ` SPC
2019-09-14 18:29                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-12 21:29           ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Charles H Sauer
2019-09-11 17:49       ` [TUHS] " Richard Salz
2019-09-11 17:52         ` ron
2019-09-11 21:44           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 18:11       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 18:18         ` Richard Salz
2019-09-11 18:54           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 21:05             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:34             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:57             ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:50               ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-11 21:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 21:50         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:49         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  3:43           ` [TUHS] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  4:20             ` George Michaelson
2019-09-12  4:31               ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12 13:44                 ` Tony Finch
2019-09-13  4:11                   ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13  5:54                     ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  8:00                       ` Peter Jeremy
2019-09-13 15:23                         ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:36                         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  4:28             ` [TUHS] SCCS Jon Forrest
2019-09-12  4:33               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  6:12                 ` William Corcoran
2019-09-12 14:35                   ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13  5:22                 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  5:50                   ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-12 16:45               ` Eric Allman [this message]
2019-09-12 17:29                 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 17:47                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-13  8:12                   ` emanuel stiebler
2019-09-13 21:11                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 21:17                       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:48                         ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-13 23:12                           ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 23:03                         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-14  1:55                           ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 17:23                             ` [TUHS] SCCS Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-16 20:31                               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 17:57                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-18  8:48                               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-18 17:33                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-12 20:07             ` Nemo
2019-09-11 16:05   ` [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Paul Winalski
2019-09-11 17:14     ` ron
2019-09-14  0:44   ` [TUHS] a book (was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS) reed
2019-09-14  2:53     ` Warner Losh
2019-09-15  2:18       ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15  2:39         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15  3:24         ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-14 22:46     ` Clem cole
2019-09-15  0:58       ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-15  3:30         ` Eric Allman
2019-09-15  4:21           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-15  5:17             ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:14               ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 20:21                 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:12           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 21:28             ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 23:27               ` Clem cole
2019-09-15 23:45                 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-15  7:43     ` Andy Kosela
2019-09-12  4:25 [TUHS] SCCS Jon Steinhart
2019-09-13 21:37 Norman Wilson
2019-09-13 21:51 ` Larry McVoy

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