From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 66afac1f for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:15:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2F768948CE; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:15:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD099480D; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:15:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 83F11947C8; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:15:25 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 1791 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:15:24 AEST Received: from knecht.neophilic.com (knecht.neophilic.com [70.36.157.234]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D159594797 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 03:15:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from rieux.neophilic.com (rieux.neophilic.com [10.0.2.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by knecht.neophilic.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x8CGjULC039018 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Sep 2019 09:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tuhs@eric.allman.name) To: Jon Forrest , tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20190911181101.GF3143@mcvoy.com> <20190912034346.GJ2046@mcvoy.com> From: Eric Allman Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=tuhs@eric.allman.name; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQGiBDu8yuARBADuTa8bzS4Er9urm7XPu5vtrRRJMoY2/mvuQeRHpvHF6ncUF2ZC9nAkIYb6 Upl9UOCZxG6uwxzzzSnxeHg7aAVY/TEN4FukuN1X1aGvol/V8PM1nV5vyLFk/Tf/Q/yoN/w8 tK9dp/O2EflChD/i/J9vWIppg3rVKK6FPW4CuqqaiwCg/ytVY7yJHZCCrhRioLBtKaCGUB0D /20dzSKBUdOxSvfg3NKt7gojiqulxmNbRkkjuhbKMRiQ0jjt16L9h+zlS1mXNT91/Ds08WtF 99Z3YffTflcbU9uBea6AJhzIaYVHwCJsNyP+rGE+9CM1YZpwm5k/ZBr7iOr0tkI1o39JRg75 Ih18gnPVXovH+VhsXRGtxTqn7+dmBADmmsHL8u/qbBWKIC3TYpXH8rJBIJXHwvOrI4HbEvAh xzD/Zy6yGMgiTZ8quGHzmdm1kD53s/TVcgEo/XWlgy9Cr05tU16UGEx/Q38K4IetCTGjhOvY a0+I012p5ZK1KqnIjUuCAy7VgGy75sBPKzYeUjJ1yAO7+EMXaZP6Olejn7QiRXJpYyBQLiBB bGxtYW4gPGVyaWNAU2VuZG1haWwuQ09NPohOBBARAgAOBAsDAQICGQEFAju8yuEACgkQMRmA Uc8aTSwR/gCfcq/84OdF6e6hkUQQbVFPqsxS6N0An13gLkFVkPJrMs+5PK5ogl0k7yW8uQIN BDu8yuAQCAD2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0Op lK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ+PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJ Zv8V+bv9kV7HAarTW56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIiz HHxbLY7288kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy 1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XpMgs7AAICB/0d vsPKvMXcKls8RHeYcleBEQEgXovGaTNo8R3ZVjPcDUKcQbfWMP8w5qJKf36hvBsjEgfVJW7r lKUtA82H66ivnAgAqWZMgfROKSHwaTFScFWLR8lG5e7sd2OZ4xqDe6+BpYlmJocR2riughz8 B7p1RhINqpfslZ0QEdB/fscntjoBvohtjG80BwB/tB6gnWHsjd9Cv6QfiNYOzAWaQo+BmcFq kmTYwrXFFNWHjOWfCUyjg2kqztl0DHjmZ7AzgHgTEnPku2TlMXwaGbHZKDOwLP/dteywinK6 SEOW2HrQBMxkMQGEZWtOH6hjszJtkqn+V4O0c92d4FjaQhvleSL7iD8DBRg7vMrgMRmAUc8a TSwRAklEAJ44uotW5aUoI1uMu94xIkLeCI6iWACg1IbChgU5suH4a+T68hfH8Jwa140= Message-ID: <1457a2d6-2f17-482d-e4f7-ace439d34ca8@neophilic.com> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 09:45:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] SCCS X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Actually I preferred SCCS for all the reasons that Larry has described. But SCCS was encumbered --- usable at the university, but not in a commercial environment --- so it wasn't available at Britton-Lee at a price we could afford, and RCS was pretty much the only other game in town. Tichy was comparing against SCCS version 1, as described in the paper "The source code control system" (Marc Rochkind, IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering 1, 4, December 1975), which used forward deltas --- very slow as your history got big. I spent considerable time trying to convince him that the version of SCCS in current production was as Larry described, where any version could be read in linear time, but he wasn't hearing anything that went against his beliefs. So far as I know, he never even looked at or measured the system he was comparing RCS to. Today I probably wouldn't use SCCS, mostly because of the atomic update problem (which was still broken in RCS, but fixed in CVS). At this point I'm using git because, well, all the cool kids are doing it, and since I work at the university I have to go with the flow sometimes. And git has some nice properties. On the other hand, I have shot myself in the foot with git more times than the sum of all other screwups with all other source management systems combined. eric On 2019-09-11 21:28, Jon Forrest wrote: > > > I used both RCS and SCCS in the early days (e.g. 1985 - 1991). RCS was > what we used at Britton-Lee in the group that Eric Allman was part of. > SCCS is what we used at Sybase as it was gaining popularity. This was > so long ago that I don't remember all the details but I found that > RCS was much easier to use, especially in an environment that didn't > do much merging. Instead we used labels (or tags, I forget what they > were called) to mark which files were part of which release. Doing > this was much harder in SCCS, which contributed to the mess that > was Sybase software engineering. > > Of course, all this could be explained by Eric's deep knowledge > of RCS, and the lack of somebody with Eric's knowledge at Sybase. > But, to me, an early adopter of source code control who wasn't > overly interested in speed, RCS was much easier to use. > > Jon