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[129.22.118.111]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h9-20020ac85489000000b003b62e9c82ebsm5263639qtq.48.2023.02.27.12.50.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:50:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <16241ceb-fe92-7f25-bda0-0b327847728d@case.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 15:50:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0 Content-Language: en-US To: arnold@skeeve.com References: <58626A0B-EF9C-4920-8E20-CE0C4210BA6A@planet.nl> <202302272004.31RK4aGG001510@freefriends.org> <2f6faeb4-5e73-cf18-b0ff-edc3e1658f72@case.edu> <202302272022.31RKMG2L004091@freefriends.org> From: Chet Ramey Organization: ITS, Case Western Reserve University In-Reply-To: <202302272022.31RKMG2L004091@freefriends.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Good-1, source=Queried, refid=tid=0001.0A742F8E.63FD1373.001E, actions=tag X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A742F16.63FD1793.0037,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2016-11-06 16:00:04, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 1c01441f6a8f928c9668a1b6ecbc4aad X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=good-1, source=Fixed, refid=n/a, actions=tag X-Junkmail-Status: score=8/90, host=mpv-out-cfd-1.case.edu X-Junkmail-PrAS-Raw: score=8/90, refid=2.7.2:2023.2.27.200624:17:8.707, ip=, rules=__YOUTUBE_RCVD, DKIM_SIGNATURE, __X_GOOGLE_DKIM_SIGNATURE, __X_GM_MESSAGE_STATE, __X_GOOGLE_SMTP_SOURCE, __HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, __MSGID_HEX_844412, DATE_TZ_NA, __MIME_VERSION, __USER_AGENT, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT, __HAS_REPLYTO, __HAS_CC_HDR, __MULTIPLE_RCPTS_CC_X2, __SUBJ_REPLY, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __HAS_REFERENCES, __REFERENCES, __HAS_FROM, FROM_EDU_TLD, __IN_REP_TO, __CT, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN, __CTE, CTE_7BIT, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ADDY, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ACC, __FROM_DOMAIN_IN_ANY_CC2, __HEADER_ORDER_FROM, __RCPT_DOMAIN_NOT_TO, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_DOMAIN, __DKIM_ALIGNS_1, __DKIM_ALIGNS_2, __FUR_HEADER, __URI_HAS_HYPHEN_USC, __ANY_URI, __URI_MAILTO, __HTTPS_URI, __URI_WITH_PATH, __URI_ENDS_IN_SLASH, __URI_NO_WWW, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, __MULTIPLE_URI_TEXT, [TRUNCATED], so=2010-03-03 19:42:08, dmn=2016-08-03-0138 Message-ID-Hash: TN6IBW4S365NTKLFNERQ4ZMVLPDT2VW2 X-Message-ID-Hash: TN6IBW4S365NTKLFNERQ4ZMVLPDT2VW2 X-MailFrom: chet.ramey@case.edu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Reply-To: chet.ramey@case.edu Subject: [TUHS] Re: Generational development [was Re: Re: Early GUI on Linux] List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 2/27/23 3:22 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Chet Ramey wrote: > >> On 2/27/23 3:04 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >> >>> IMHO the dependence upon IDEs is crippling; they cut & paste to the >>> almost total exclusion of the keyboard, including when shell completion >>> would be faster. >> >> Don't forget cargo-culting by pasting shell commands they got from the web >> and barely understand, if at all. > > Yeah, really. > > I do what I can, but it's a very steep uphill battle, as most > don't even understand that they're missing something, or that > they could learn it if they wanted to. > > I think I'll stop ranting before I really get going. :-) Or the horror show that is wget -O - https://some-random-place/random-script.sh | bash (or worse, | sudo bash). Seriously, people, just stop depending so completely on the kindness of strangers. -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet@case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/