* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) @ 2021-07-18 20:44 Norman Wilson 2021-07-18 21:50 ` Deborah Scherrer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Norman Wilson @ 2021-07-18 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Unlike most here, I always pronounced Mt Xinu with an eye, not an eee. I don't know where I got that, though. I did know Ed Gould via USENIX and DECUS, but that doesn't make my pronunciation correct. As an aside, anyone know where Ed is these days or how he's doing? I last saw him at a USENIX conference, probably in San Jose in 2013 but I'm not sure. He showed up just for the reception; he'd retired, and had cut away most of his famous beard because he was spending a lot of time sailing and it got in the way. Norman Wilson Toronto ON ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 20:44 [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Norman Wilson @ 2021-07-18 21:50 ` Deborah Scherrer 2021-07-18 22:40 ` Warner Losh 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Deborah Scherrer @ 2021-07-18 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs It is indeed Mount Z-eye-nu. (I used to be its President. ;-) ) Ed is living in the Walnut Creek area. He has indeed retired and he and his wife do indeed do a lot of sailing. Deborah On 7/18/21 1:44 PM, Norman Wilson wrote: > Unlike most here, I always pronounced Mt Xinu with an > eye, not an eee. I don't know where I got that, though. > > I did know Ed Gould via USENIX and DECUS, but that doesn't > make my pronunciation correct. > > As an aside, anyone know where Ed is these days or how he's > doing? I last saw him at a USENIX conference, probably in > San Jose in 2013 but I'm not sure. He showed up just for the > reception; he'd retired, and had cut away most of his famous > beard because he was spending a lot of time sailing and it > got in the way. > > Norman Wilson > Toronto ON ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 21:50 ` Deborah Scherrer @ 2021-07-18 22:40 ` Warner Losh 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Warner Losh @ 2021-07-18 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: dscherrer; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1075 bytes --] On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 4:17 PM Deborah Scherrer < dscherrer@solar.stanford.edu> wrote: > It is indeed Mount Z-eye-nu. (I used to be its President. ;-) ) > Excellent! That's how I'd always heard it. Glad to know it's right. Ed is living in the Walnut Creek area. He has indeed retired and he and > his wife do indeed do a lot of sailing. > Great! Thanks for the somewhat authoritative answer :) Warner > Deborah > > On 7/18/21 1:44 PM, Norman Wilson wrote: > > Unlike most here, I always pronounced Mt Xinu with an > > eye, not an eee. I don't know where I got that, though. > > > > I did know Ed Gould via USENIX and DECUS, but that doesn't > > make my pronunciation correct. > > > > As an aside, anyone know where Ed is these days or how he's > > doing? I last saw him at a USENIX conference, probably in > > San Jose in 2013 but I'm not sure. He showed up just for the > > reception; he'd retired, and had cut away most of his famous > > beard because he was spending a lot of time sailing and it > > got in the way. > > > > Norman Wilson > > Toronto ON > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1923 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] 386BSD released @ 2021-07-13 22:28 Dave Horsfall 2021-07-14 7:54 ` Michael Kjörling 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-07-13 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In 1992, 386BSD is released by Lynne and William Jolitz, starting the open source operating system movement (Linux didn't come along under later). -- Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-13 22:28 [TUHS] 386BSD released Dave Horsfall @ 2021-07-14 7:54 ` Michael Kjörling 2021-07-16 1:35 ` Dave Horsfall 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Kjörling @ 2021-07-14 7:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs On 14 Jul 2021 08:28 +1000, from dave@horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall): > In 1992, 386BSD is released by Lynne and William Jolitz, starting the open > source operating system movement (Linux didn't come along under later). Are you sure? Wikipedia claims that it happened the other way around; that the Linux kernel initial release was 0.02 on 5 Oct 1991, while the 386BSD initial release was 0.0 on 12 March 1992. It seems that work on 386BSD began earlier than work on Linux, but that the initial release of Linux was earlier than the initial release of 386BSD. -- Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?” ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-14 7:54 ` Michael Kjörling @ 2021-07-16 1:35 ` Dave Horsfall 2021-07-16 2:33 ` risner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-07-16 1:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 716 bytes --] On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, Michael Kjörling wrote: >> In 1992, 386BSD is released by Lynne and William Jolitz, starting the >> open source operating system movement (Linux didn't come along under >> later). > > Are you sure? Wikipedia claims that it happened the other way around; > that the Linux kernel initial release was 0.02 on 5 Oct 1991, while the > 386BSD initial release was 0.0 on 12 March 1992. Could be; I got that news from one of those daily history sites (I don't always trust Wikipedia). > It seems that work on 386BSD began earlier than work on Linux, but that > the initial release of Linux was earlier than the initial release of > 386BSD. That could be the source of the confusion. -- Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 1:35 ` Dave Horsfall @ 2021-07-16 2:33 ` risner 2021-07-16 4:25 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: risner @ 2021-07-16 2:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society I was running 386BSD 0.0 on a 386 40 mhz machine in April 1992 with 32 mb of ram. There was much instability in the OS with more than 8 gb of ram and I mailed 32 mb of extra to the Jolitz late summer to the fall. I never heard about Linux until much later in 1993. There used to be a post on usenet news annoucing the relase with the FTP, but the best I could google was this FAQ confirming release in 1992. https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.386bsd.announce/c/PGltboD6rq4 I have repetively seen discussion suggesting Linux was available first, but having directly worked for a university at the time installing SunOS, AT&T SVR3, and other old OS’s, we welcomed the concept of switching from AT&T SVR3 on 386 machines to 386BSD. We’d probably have welcomed Linux if anyone in the department knew about it. James Risner On 15 Jul 2021, at 21:35, Dave Horsfall wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, Michael Kjörling wrote: > >>> In 1992, 386BSD is released by Lynne and William Jolitz, starting >>> the open source operating system movement (Linux didn't come along >>> under later). >> >> Are you sure? Wikipedia claims that it happened the other way around; >> that the Linux kernel initial release was 0.02 on 5 Oct 1991, while >> the 386BSD initial release was 0.0 on 12 March 1992. > > Could be; I got that news from one of those daily history sites (I > don't always trust Wikipedia). > >> It seems that work on 386BSD began earlier than work on Linux, but >> that the initial release of Linux was earlier than the initial >> release of 386BSD. > > That could be the source of the confusion. > > -- Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 2:33 ` risner @ 2021-07-16 4:25 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2021-07-16 5:51 ` Bakul Shah 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2021-07-16 4:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: risner; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:33:52PM -0400, risner@stdio.com wrote: > > I have repetively seen discussion suggesting Linux was available first, but > having directly worked for a university at the time installing SunOS, AT&T > SVR3, and other old OS’s, we welcomed the concept of switching from AT&T > SVR3 on 386 machines to 386BSD. We’d probably have welcomed Linux if anyone > in the department knew about it. To be fair, Linux in 1991 was a very primitive affair; no TCP/IP, no X Windows. We had C-Kermit, and we had emacs, and we had basic shell utilities and a compiler. But not much else. So I doubt it would have been a good replacement for SVR3. The big difference was that Linus accepted patches, and turned around new releases *quickly* while Jolitz apparently sat on patches until the NetBSD and FreeBSD people finally lost patience and released a fork with their patch sets in 1993. So while Linux in 1992 was probably behind 386BSD from a feature perspective, its development velocity was much faster. I remember a friendly rivalry that I had with Bruce D. Evans in Australia, who was working on the serial driver for FreeBSD, where we would exchange tips and techniques for making the serial driver on our respective OS's more CPU efficient. (The metric was to see who could most reduce the system overhead of the serial interrupt and tty layers when running a C-Kermit file transfer over a pair of RS-232 ports connected via a loopback cable.) It was a lot of fun, and we both gained a lot from the exchange of ideas, but finally, I came up with an idea (flip buffers) that really reduced Linux's serial/tty overhead, but which Bruce couldn't match in FreeBSD, because the FreeBSD core team thought that clists were handed down from Mount Olympus by the Gods of BSD, and making that kind of change in the tty layer was tantamount to heresy. Heh. - Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 4:25 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2021-07-16 5:51 ` Bakul Shah 2021-07-16 13:00 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-07-16 5:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Theodore Y. Ts'o; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society On Jul 15, 2021, at 9:25 PM, Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote: > > I remember a friendly rivalry that I had with Bruce D. Evans in > Australia, who was working on the serial driver for FreeBSD, where we > would exchange tips and techniques for making the serial driver on our > respective OS's more CPU efficient. (The metric was to see who could > most reduce the system overhead of the serial interrupt and tty layers > when running a C-Kermit file transfer over a pair of RS-232 ports > connected via a loopback cable.) It was a lot of fun, and we both > gained a lot from the exchange of ideas, but finally, I came up with > an idea (flip buffers) that really reduced Linux's serial/tty > overhead, but which Bruce couldn't match in FreeBSD, because the > FreeBSD core team thought that clists were handed down from Mount > Olympus by the Gods of BSD, and making that kind of change in the tty > layer was tantamount to heresy. Heh. Dave Yost wrote the serial driver for our 4 port serial card @ Fortune (1981-82). Later chips like NS16550 had 16 char on chip buffers but we back then we used a Moto SIO chip that had only one char buffer. IIRC, he used two tricks. One was "partially evaluated" xmit/recv handlers so that each port got its own xmit/recv functions, with hand-crafted instructions (in hex, no less!) just right for a given port and all the interry t handler . The do was transfer a char from/to the buffer it (lready knew about. The other was he increased the cblock size from 8 to 128 (what a clist points to). He says he described this design to dmr who said why not?! With this design Yost's code was able to handle 4 full-duplex 9600 baud streams at full-speed. Not bad for a 5.6Mhz clock machine! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 5:51 ` Bakul Shah @ 2021-07-16 13:00 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2021-07-16 13:56 ` Larry McVoy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2021-07-16 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:51:11PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: > > Dave Yost wrote the serial driver for our 4 port serial card @ Fortune > (1981-82). Later chips like NS16550 had 16 char on chip buffers but we > back then we used a Moto SIO chip that had only one char buffer. IIRC, > he used two tricks. One was "partially evaluated" xmit/recv handlers so > that each port got its own xmit/recv functions, with hand-crafted > instructions (in hex, no less!) just right for a given port and all the > interry t handler . The do was transfer a char from/to the buffer it > (lready knew about. The other was he increased the cblock size from 8 to 128 > (what a clist points to). He says he described this design to dmr who said > why not?! With this design Yost's code was able to handle 4 full-duplex > 9600 baud streams at full-speed. Not bad for a 5.6Mhz clock machine! The trick that I used was two have two "flip buffers" which were dedicated for each serial port. One buffer would be filled by the interrupt handler, while the other would be buffer would be processed by the bottom half (read: software interrupt) handler. When the bottom half handler had emptied one buffer, it would check to see if there were any characters in the other buffer, and if so, flip the two and process the characters in that buffer. Exclusion was handled by a combination of disabling serial interrupts and using a spinlock (which was held just long enough to flip the pointers to the two flip buffers). With this scheme I could handle multiple pairs of 115200 baud streams at full rates before the 40 MHz CPU was saturated. No memory allocation is required on the hot paths, and the amount of processing that is done in the hardware interrupt context is the absolute minimum. I also added a bit test against 32-byte bitarray to determine whether a character could be handled via the fast path or require special handling (in case it was a ^C, ^U, ^S, etc.) but that was important only for cooked mode; it wasn't needed for raw mode. I suspect this hack would become less or even not helpful as Intel processors became more Spectre- and Meltdown-susceptible, but for the 386, it was a win. :-) - Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 13:00 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2021-07-16 13:56 ` Larry McVoy 2021-07-16 19:07 ` Kevin Bowling 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2021-07-16 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Theodore Y. Ts'o; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Bakul Shah On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 09:00:58AM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > The trick that I used was two have two "flip buffers" which were > dedicated for each serial port. One buffer would be filled by the > interrupt handler, while the other would be buffer would be processed > by the bottom half (read: software interrupt) handler. When the > bottom half handler had emptied one buffer, it would check to see if > there were any characters in the other buffer, and if so, flip the two > and process the characters in that buffer. I'm pretty sure SGI used a similar approach for networking packets. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 13:56 ` Larry McVoy @ 2021-07-16 19:07 ` Kevin Bowling 2021-07-16 20:17 ` Clem Cole 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Kevin Bowling @ 2021-07-16 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Larry McVoy; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Bakul Shah On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 6:57 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 09:00:58AM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > > The trick that I used was two have two "flip buffers" which were > > dedicated for each serial port. One buffer would be filled by the > > interrupt handler, while the other would be buffer would be processed > > by the bottom half (read: software interrupt) handler. When the > > bottom half handler had emptied one buffer, it would check to see if > > there were any characters in the other buffer, and if so, flip the two > > and process the characters in that buffer. > > I'm pretty sure SGI used a similar approach for networking packets. Yup was just going to say this is standard in the modern BSD network drivers, looks like Clem says it's older. There are recent optimizations to help the CPU with prefetch, and some ideas around vectors of mbufs. What's remarkable is the mbuf design scales to 200gbps in practice, it must feel great to design something like that so long ago :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 19:07 ` Kevin Bowling @ 2021-07-16 20:17 ` Clem Cole 2021-07-16 20:24 ` Richard Salz 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Clem Cole @ 2021-07-16 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kevin Bowling; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Bakul Shah [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2330 bytes --] On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 3:08 PM Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> wrote: > Yup was just going to say this is standard in the modern BSD network > drivers, looks like Clem says it's older. Absolutely -- I believe it was Rob's undergrad project at Brown that he brought to BBN. The first use, if I saw, was the 'portable IP/TCP' stack BBN did for HP/3000 and a couple of other systems. That code seems to have been lost. I have asked about it on the Internet history mailing list. I had a copy of it one time, but sadly I don't think I still do. IIRC The original PDP-11 IP implementation which ran on a couple of dedicated systems, whose names/function I frankly do not remember) was also based on a version of this code. I think it ran something like RT-11 or DOS-11 and then started the IP code -- basically RTR style today. Later it morphed into Rob's Vax BSD 4.1 specific stack, which we ran at UCB on a couple of the systems using 3M Xerox board. This latest until 4.1A and Joy's rewrite and I want to say we switched in Interlan 10M boards then. We have a couple of the 3Com boards, but because of the lack of buffering, they were a bear to use and stopped as soon as we got the Interlan one. Anyway, all of these IP/TCP stacks used Rob's mbuf code. Which was a blessing and a curse. By writing his own, he avoids huge changes/integration into the memory system, but it also helped to make BSD such a mess under the covers because there were so many private memory managers between the network, the I/O systems etc... As discussed previously on the TUHS list, the one thing Risner really did well had a uniform memory design. Later BSD's moved to Mach and tried to clean this up a little, but the network code was by then so screwed into Rob's mbuf scheme, it stayed around a long time. Werner -- what is the state of this these days in FreeBSD is it still there? > There are recent optimizations to help the CPU with prefetch, and some > ideas around vectors of mbufs. What's remarkable is the mbuf design > scales to > 200gbps in practice, it must feel great to design something like that so > long ago :) > Well, ask Rob :-) I've lost track of him since Stellar, and I think he I heard he left high tech but frankly don't know. Clem ᐧ [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4318 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 20:17 ` Clem Cole @ 2021-07-16 20:24 ` Richard Salz 2021-07-18 13:13 ` arnold 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Salz @ 2021-07-16 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Clem Cole; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Bakul Shah [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2627 bytes --] Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads?I only remember one page, "oh no Spot(?) spilled the mbufs, Dad's favorite cereal." On Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 4:19 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 3:08 PM Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling@kev009.com> > wrote: > >> Yup was just going to say this is standard in the modern BSD network >> drivers, looks like Clem says it's older. > > Absolutely -- I believe it was Rob's undergrad project at Brown that he > brought to BBN. > > The first use, if I saw, was the 'portable IP/TCP' stack BBN did for > HP/3000 and a couple of other systems. That code seems to have been lost. > I have asked about it on the Internet history mailing list. I had a copy > of it one time, but sadly I don't think I still do. IIRC The original > PDP-11 IP implementation which ran on a couple of dedicated systems, > whose names/function I frankly do not remember) was also based on a version > of this code. I think it ran something like RT-11 or DOS-11 and then > started the IP code -- basically RTR style today. Later it morphed into > Rob's Vax BSD 4.1 specific stack, which we ran at UCB on a couple of the > systems using 3M Xerox board. This latest until 4.1A and Joy's rewrite and > I want to say we switched in Interlan 10M boards then. We have a couple of > the 3Com boards, but because of the lack of buffering, they were a bear to > use and stopped as soon as we got the Interlan one. > > > Anyway, all of these IP/TCP stacks used Rob's mbuf code. Which was a > blessing and a curse. By writing his own, he avoids huge > changes/integration into the memory system, but it also helped to make BSD > such a mess under the covers because there were so many private memory > managers between the network, the I/O systems etc... As discussed > previously on the TUHS list, the one thing Risner really did well had a > uniform memory design. Later BSD's moved to Mach and tried to clean this > up a little, but the network code was by then so screwed into Rob's mbuf > scheme, it stayed around a long time. Werner -- what is the state of this > these days in FreeBSD is it still there? > > > > >> There are recent optimizations to help the CPU with prefetch, and some >> ideas around vectors of mbufs. What's remarkable is the mbuf design >> scales to >> 200gbps in practice, it must feel great to design something like that so >> long ago :) >> > Well, ask Rob :-) I've lost track of him since Stellar, and I think he I > heard he left high tech but frankly don't know. > > Clem > ᐧ > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4823 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] 386BSD released 2021-07-16 20:24 ` Richard Salz @ 2021-07-18 13:13 ` arnold 2021-07-18 13:43 ` [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Al Kossow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: arnold @ 2021-07-18 13:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rich.salz, clemc; +Cc: tuhs, bakul Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads?I only remember one > page, "oh no Spot(?) spilled the mbufs, Dad's favorite cereal." I think it was "my dog Biff..." Wasn't that Heidi Stetner's dog or something? Apparently he used to bark whenever the mailman showed up, inspiring the BSD biff(1) command. I had that calendar, and kept it for many years. There was a lovely picture of a shepherd boy trying to herd cats. I don't remember the rest, other than that they were amusing. I think I finally tossed it though. Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 13:13 ` arnold @ 2021-07-18 13:43 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 13:51 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 13:43 ` [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 13:51 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs On 7/18/21 6:43 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >> Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? > > I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 > I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today > Well this is a weird coincidence, 2021 matches the 1993 calendar so a retro calendar for this year could be photoshopped together The year doesn't even appear that many times on the original. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 13:43 ` [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Al Kossow 2021-07-18 13:51 ` Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 17:38 ` John Cowan ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs On 7/18/21 6:43 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >> Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? > > I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 > I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today > > Calendars cycle every 28 years the coincidence was asking about it on exactly that year it's up now under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mtXinu is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow @ 2021-07-18 17:38 ` John Cowan 2021-07-18 18:35 ` Bakul Shah ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2021-07-18 17:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Al Kossow; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 709 bytes --] On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 12:45 PM Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? > Not that I know, but I have always said "zeenew" for the (unrelated) embedded OS by Comer and "mount zeenew" for the software company. Armand Hammer, the American businessman and unofficial commercial attache to the Soviet Union, had nothing to do with Arm and Hammer baking soda, though he did buy stock in the manufacturer after being asked about it one too many times. Armand was probably named after the "arm and hammer" logo of the Socialist Labor Party, an anti-Marxist group who favored the development of revolutionary industrial labor unions, to which his father belonged. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1504 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 17:38 ` John Cowan @ 2021-07-18 18:35 ` Bakul Shah 2021-07-19 3:06 ` Dan Stromberg 2021-07-18 19:00 ` arnold 2021-07-18 20:06 ` Lyle Bickley 3 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-07-18 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Al Kossow; +Cc: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 281 bytes --] On Jul 18, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > > is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? Don't know how it is supposed to be pronounced but I have always pronounced it as 'zai-noo, with xi the way the greek letter ξ is pronounced in English. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1468 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 18:35 ` Bakul Shah @ 2021-07-19 3:06 ` Dan Stromberg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Dan Stromberg @ 2021-07-19 3:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 512 bytes --] On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 11:36 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: > On Jul 18, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > > > is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? > > > *Don't know **how it is supposed to be pronounced but **I have* > *always pronounced it as **'zai-noo, with xi the **way the greek* > *letter ξ is pronounced in English.* > We pronounced it as Mownt Zeye New when I was managing a lab of IBM RT's running Mt Xinu's MSD 2.6 as a grad student. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1476 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 17:38 ` John Cowan 2021-07-18 18:35 ` Bakul Shah @ 2021-07-18 19:00 ` arnold 2021-07-18 21:48 ` Deborah Scherrer 2021-07-18 20:06 ` Lyle Bickley 3 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: arnold @ 2021-07-18 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs, aek Hi. Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > On 7/18/21 6:43 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > > On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > >> Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? > > > > I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 > > I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today > > > > > Calendars cycle every 28 years > > the coincidence was asking about it on exactly that year > > it's up now under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mtXinu Thanks! It's not the calendar Rich and I remember, but it's still worth having. :-) > is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? I always pronounced it zee new. Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 19:00 ` arnold @ 2021-07-18 21:48 ` Deborah Scherrer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Deborah Scherrer @ 2021-07-18 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs I believe I have all of the calendars. Will try to scan them in. Deborah On 7/18/21 12:00 PM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Hi. > > Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > >> On 7/18/21 6:43 AM, Al Kossow wrote: >>> On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >>>> Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? >>> I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 >>> I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today >>> >> > Calendars cycle every 28 years >> >> the coincidence was asking about it on exactly that year >> >> it's up now under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mtXinu > Thanks! It's not the calendar Rich and I remember, but it's > still worth having. :-) > >> is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? > I always pronounced it zee new. > > Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2021-07-18 19:00 ` arnold @ 2021-07-18 20:06 ` Lyle Bickley 3 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Lyle Bickley @ 2021-07-18 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 09:44:53 -0700 Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > On 7/18/21 6:43 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > > On 7/18/21 6:13 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > >> Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Anyone remember the old mtXinu calendar with fake ads? > > > > I just turned up a copy, it's from 1993 > > I'll have it on bitsavers under pdf/mtXinu later today > > > > > Calendars cycle every 28 years > > the coincidence was asking about it on exactly that year > > it's up now under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mtXinu > > is supposed to be pronouced zee new or zeye new ? > Thanks, Al!!! Lyle -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-19 3:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-07-18 20:44 [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Norman Wilson 2021-07-18 21:50 ` Deborah Scherrer 2021-07-18 22:40 ` Warner Losh -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2021-07-13 22:28 [TUHS] 386BSD released Dave Horsfall 2021-07-14 7:54 ` Michael Kjörling 2021-07-16 1:35 ` Dave Horsfall 2021-07-16 2:33 ` risner 2021-07-16 4:25 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2021-07-16 5:51 ` Bakul Shah 2021-07-16 13:00 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2021-07-16 13:56 ` Larry McVoy 2021-07-16 19:07 ` Kevin Bowling 2021-07-16 20:17 ` Clem Cole 2021-07-16 20:24 ` Richard Salz 2021-07-18 13:13 ` arnold 2021-07-18 13:43 ` [TUHS] MtXinu calendar (was Re: 386BSD released) Al Kossow 2021-07-18 13:51 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 16:44 ` Al Kossow 2021-07-18 17:38 ` John Cowan 2021-07-18 18:35 ` Bakul Shah 2021-07-19 3:06 ` Dan Stromberg 2021-07-18 19:00 ` arnold 2021-07-18 21:48 ` Deborah Scherrer 2021-07-18 20:06 ` Lyle Bickley
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