From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 67a1f9be for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 925919E822; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:09:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805BB9E6FE; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:09:03 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=tnetconsulting.net header.i=@tnetconsulting.net header.b=PvXAx2Uy; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2A3159E6FE; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:09:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [45.33.28.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B56E793D07 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:09:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id w9AH8wiL008097 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:09:00 -0500 ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v0.1.0 tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net w9AH8wiL008097 Authentication-Results: tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net; arc=none header.d=tnetconsulting.net ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1539191340; cv=none; b=If7fgYaUU/lZ+yW05fcLvli6D3JlpswsNHAKT1bOkc8huL4wyZ0AullUj87zcGs9z25+ATbNdXSC/IhPGqCrw83FlIQ2A0V84/X6IPxleat1raxdKmmUwbWp8eLoO68Trty1uPiHivhp83cm3dVUPKG0nsTQiTjefxBZ90Qm1nI= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1539191340; c=relaxed/simple; bh=ZTpqiSoLf4FoN6ZhmliWThCh7xJpyCtH+bJpHIWx1zs=; h=DKIM-Signature:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=B4pB247nzuP3j1TbiykST+BMZU1n9pX0VKcexIayXmujna/gpw6RupR9LjSdhVX+k0clZ9+vjRt5YJt9DhvdFwr7d/jzdMQ/gx/uU0MujgtsYI/Vu2WFkIg/hGJhPPHDA8483E/4FTrS+/Jl4ppj/n+XHTp7E1KMqXBc0XPDDeQ= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1539191340; bh=ZTpqiSoLf4FoN6ZhmliWThCh7xJpyCtH+bJpHIWx1zs=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=PvXAx2UyUotYLoZ66hzVNpmoVLH1Nrh+JaEXsptu9jjnGOEPOc5UuzxZjdE+3PAXh Zr9TelLlIHFs6Zy55bQXvsmdorSCTNKQC1OC3I6tdz2l98WKMGg6EQWwEIJv8agPsv pos91AwaRJeu/CEMV9WGMepJwFPx+v1WHDE0I9vU= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <1539182625.28839.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: <190511dd-f19f-7b76-cf8c-2663b81bad22@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:08:58 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1539182625.28839.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms050601000105070606030902" Subject: Re: [TUHS] The origin of /home X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Grant Taylor via TUHS Reply-To: Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050601000105070606030902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/10/2018 08:43 AM, Norman Wilson wrote: > The first UNIX system I ever used, ca. 1980, had users' home directorie= s=20 > in /u. I suspect it was that way (as suggested in some earlier message= s)=20 > just for storage management: separate file system from /usr. I sort of like /u because I'm lazy and it's shorter than /usr or /home.=20 }:-) > I've carried /u around with me ever since to other systems I've set up = > from scratch, except in my home environment where I've made a radical=20 > departure: everything that isn't part of the base OS is in a tree=20 > rooted at /con, so home directories are /con/u. /con was `constant,'=20 > inspired by /var, meaning stuff that should be preserved when the OS=20 > is reinstalled--everything else should come from installation media or = > configuration management. Save for /etc, I like the spirit of /con. > But in any case there's nothing especially novel about moving users' ho= me=20 > directories out of /usr, and since it's UNIX, nothing that says there h= as=20 > to be any standard at all. The wonderful thing about standards is that we have so many to choose fro= m. > On the systems I am currently paid to help run, most users have=20 > home-directory names like /h/u12/c4/00/c4ntest. There is no attempt to= =20 > glue together a single name hierarchy; we have in excess of 17000 users= =20 > so that would be something of a mess. (I guess enormous directories=20 > aren't the resource pigs they used to be, I don't know if it's still the performance penalty that it used to be,=20 or if the systems are just faster and / or better and overcoming said=20 performance penalty of big directories. > though symlinks are just as bad as they have ever been.) Would you please elaborate on what you mean by that? > There's the ~user shell syntax for those who like that; I don't, but=20 > I have a little shell script in my personal bin directory so I can do=20 > things like ls `home c4ntest`; it all just works. I use tilde somewhat frequently, particularly when I want to manipulate=20 contents from someone else's home directory. (Usually copy something=20 from my directory elsewhere when running as root. I.e. scp a file to my = home, then move said file to where it belongs, which my normal user=20 can't write to.) I've done some other things like your "home" script (or variables). But = I found them lacking when wanting to do file manipulations like above. > I once thought of writing a paper entitled `/usr and /etc considered=20 > harmful,' in which I would have proposed: I would be interested in reading such a paper. > a. It no longer matters a whit whether the (real) root file system can= =20 > fit into a 5MB slice of the disk or the like, so just merge everything = > that spilled into /usr in the tiny-disk days back into the root where=20 > it belongs. Are you talking about just things like /usr ~> /home or all other=20 mounted file systems too? I still see a reason to have other files systems, particularly if they=20 come from block devices with different storage criteria. I.e. RAID 1=20 for root, RAID 5 for user data, RAID 0 for news spool & HTTP cache, etc. > b. /etc is largely junk. Executables have long since moved into /sbin= =2E=20 > Pretty much everything else that's there belongs (according to the=20 > original scheme, not the latter-day complications inflicted by those=20 > who didn't understand) in /lib. I never liked executable (think binaries vs scripts) in /etc or /lib.=20 Maybe it's just my ignorance. I've never had a really good grasp on the difference between bin and=20 sbin. Different people have different explanations. Then there's=20 Solaris sym-linking /bin to /usr/bin. (I think) I get the /{bin,lib,=E2=80=A6} vs /usr/{bin,lib,=E2=80=A6} vs=20 /usr/local/{bin,lib,=E2=80=A6}. At least / being what's required to boot= strap=20 and bring the system up to run level 1 (or comparable). Then /usr being = the rest of the things installed by the OS vendor. With /usr/local=20 being where the site would install all of their customizations. To me, this is more about scoping of who's responsible for what and what = it's primary purpose is. Given Norman's comments, I could see how / and /usr could be merged back = together. Then I suppose that they could be restructured to remove /usr.= Question: Where do the following things belong, if not in /etc? =C2=B7 passwd / shadow =C2=B7 group / gshadow =C2=B7 inittab In other words, where do system configuration files live? =E2=80=94 IMH= O they=20 should be separate from the location of the files the programs consist=20 of. Much like /con above allowing most everything else to be replaced=20 wholesale. > Unfortunately all the quick hacks and poorly-considered tweaks of the=20 > past have long since been cast in stone by widespread convention, so=20 > it's fruitless to try to clean any of this up. That doesn't make it any less of a thought experiment or enlightening=20 discussion. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die --------------ms050601000105070606030902 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CxcwggUpMIIEEaADAgECAhAIzwdZriPvq7FXSbc0jGReMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGXMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE9MDsGA1UEAxM0Q09NT0RPIFJTQSBD bGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xNzExMTcwMDAw MDBaFw0xODExMTcyMzU5NTlaMCsxKTAnBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWGmd0YXlsb3JAdG5ldGNvbnN1 bHRpbmcubmV0MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAvhfMhFM6CDAWL4Mg xrKLLbzTCILpI7uBzgG/HFXxV92MX4fba+pAotqOV8of7uF4YykVw94lCsOmFeVkb8VNSn6Q 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