From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:06:54 +0930 Subject: Old PDP-11 UNIX Paper Docs? In-Reply-To: <199709110539.PAA17152@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; from Warren Toomey on Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 03:39:39PM +1000 References: <199709110539.PAA17152@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-ID: <19970911160654.56158@lemis.com> On Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 03:39:39PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > All, > While I'm thinking of it, does anybody have any old Usenix, EUUG, > AUUG etc. newsletters, papers, conference proceedings? Some of these have > details about fitting various UNIX flavours onto various PDP-11s, plus other > useful information. Anyone care to scan stuff in? > > I've got some AUUG newsletters dating from 1980 onwards. One of them mentions > a `Heriot-Watt stripped down 7th Edition', which looks like it comes from > Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, UK. Does anybody have any knowledge of > this version of 7th Edition? I believe I might have a copy of it. I got it along with an 11/73 from some friends, who had brought the software via Novosibirsk, where they had studied computer science. They gave me the machine in April of this year, along with a whole lot of RL02s, and I haven't put it together yet. If anybody in the Adelaide area is interested in helping me, we might find something interesting on it. Greg Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA08832 for pups-liszt; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:46:13 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA08826 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:45:58 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA02528; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22220; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:45:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:45:41 -0400 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199709111345.AA22220 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Warren, ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:09:19 +1000 (EST) Received: from halcyon.com (blv-lx102-ip30.nwnexus.net [206.63.41.30]) by mail1.halcyon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24800; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341815C8.39585882 at halcyon.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:01:12 -0700 From: "David C. Jenner" Reply-To: djenner at halcyon.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Toomey CC: Allison J Parent , pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media References: <199709110449.OAA17004 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Warren, I think you are exactly correct when you say these are the first two eminent, and imminent questions about PDP-11 Unix. They have frequently occurred to me as I drool in anticipation over the possibility of running 2.11BSD on an 11/73! Maybe you or a 2.11BSD expert (Steve Schultz?) could find the "release notes" for 2.11BSD and post them, if that's legal now. That would answer a lot of questions about how to configure a machine or whether a particular machine could handle it. Maybe the release notes from two or three different versions could cover a great majority of potential users; your survey might answer that. It will be great to have everything on a CD-ROM, but that probably won't help a majority of users bootstrap up a system, since most won't have a CD-ROM or maybe even no operating system to start with. We are going to have to find someone(s) who is (are) willing to make up a standard distribution tape (9-track or otherwise) or floppies (is that possible?). This could really be the biggest hurdle to getting a system running on many machines. Dave Warren Toomey wrote: > > In article by Allison J Parent: > > > > > > > I've done the petition. > > > > > > > > > I also know of the binaries for v6 and v7 at several sites for emulator use. > > > > What is unclear is how to get those binaries onto a real PDP-11 such as my > > 11/73 and if the devices I have are even supported. > > Sorry for the misunderstanding Allison! > > Actually, that's a very good question. As I'm not a hardware person, I'll > pass this over to the other PUPS mailing list members. If/when SCO start > selling licenses & we make CD-ROMs or FTP sites available, this question > is going to come up an awful lot: > > Question 1 > ---------- > > How do I get a Unix distribution onto: > > - a tape, because I have a tape drive > > - a disk drive, as I don't have a tape drive > > assuming I [ have RT-11/ RSX / no operating system ] on the PDP-11 already. > > Question 2 > ---------- > > I have [ this particular CPU and this list of other peripherals ]. > What version(s) of Unix can I run on this PDP-11? > > Can anybody help out with answers to Question 1? Bits & pieces of Question 2 > are answered on the PUPS web pages, but they need expanding. > > Thanks in advance for any information, and any programs (boot code etc) > that I can add in to the PUPS archive!! > > Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09835 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:43:59 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA09827 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:43:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA29070; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28167; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:43:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:43:46 -0400 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199709111843.AA28167 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:43 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08771; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:31 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey Message-Id: <199709112313.JAA08771 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Old PDP-11 UNIX Paper Docs? To: pnt103 at ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:31 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: from "pnt103 at ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk" at "Sep 11, 97 09:21:25 am" Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by pnt103 at ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk: > Warren wrote: > > I've got some AUUG newsletters ... One of them mentions > > a `Heriot-Watt stripped down 7th Edition', > > If this is the version I have, which not only came from HWU, but is > running on one of their old machines, it's fairly standard. It was > build for a 'small machine', meaning one without separate I&D space, > such as an 11/34 (mine's on an 11/23 with 128KW and RL02s). There > are some extra drivers to support RX02s and stuff, but I think these > are just well-known additions from sources such as Boston. There's a > makefile to configure and build for a small machine. > > It's missing some of the larger pieces of software, such as troff (nroff > is there, and the troff source AFAIR) and Fortran, and the tty driver is > modified (bigger!), but most other things seem to be 'normal'. > > I have the source on 800bpi magtape (pity my drive is only 1600bpi) and > also most of it on RL02, though the RL02s are a bit disorganised. > > Pete Anybody in the UK able to read Pete's tape? Pete, can you kermit the files off those RL02s? Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10611 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:15 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10606 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:12 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09209 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:22 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey Message-Id: <199709112331.JAA09209 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Bootstrap Idea To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:22 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, I had an idea about bootstrapping images into PDP-11s, please shoot it down! Ok, I don't know much about the -11 hardware, how hard would it be to bootstrap as follows: hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Flaws: need different bootstraps for different disks need different bootstraps for different serial hardware how to deal with bad blocks? very slooow Other problems: 5th, 6th Edition came as RK05 images. We could probably build images for different drives. 7th Edition did a mkfs during installation, but I don't know if bad blocks were ever dealt with. Anyway, this solution would allow a simple program + disk images to be put on your nearby PC running Linux/whatever, so no tapes or tape drives would be required. I've used this method on another hardware platform to move disk images in/out. It is slow, but it works. Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00163 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:39:17 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00156 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:39:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA09132; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13555; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:38:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:38:58 -0400 From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Message-Id: <199709120138.AA13555 at world.std.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Bootstrap Idea Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi, RE: booting < hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which < sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which < then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Depending on the hardware many of the qbus 11s have ODT, MOP(serial line), MOP(sync line), TU58, rx01/2 and tu58 boots in rom. It's handy to untilize this. I will not comment on unibus machines as I'm not experinced on those. I favor the MOP boot with a mop responder on a PC to load a loader. The key is to load small program by hand that loads a more complex loader.