* nondisclosure clause in SCO license
@ 1998-12-14 22:17 Eric Fischer
0 siblings, 0 replies; only message in thread
From: Eric Fischer @ 1998-12-14 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
Does anyone know how serious SCO is about enforcing the nondisclosure
clause from the Ancient Unix license? I'm referring to this one:
8.4 (a) LICENSEE agrees that it shall hold all parts of the
SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS subject to this Agreement in confidence for
SCO. LICENSEE further agrees that should it make such disclosure
of any or all of such SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS (including methods or
concepts utilized therein) to anyone to whom such disclosure is
necessary to the use for which rights are granted hereunder,
LICENSEE shall appropriately notify each such person to whom any
such disclosure is made that such disclosure is made in
confidence and shall be kept in confidence and have each such
person sign a confidentiality agreement containing restrictions
on disclosure substantially similar to those set forth herein.
So if I mention to someone that (for instance) the Sixth Edition
version of ed didn't have the "j" command but it was in PWB and the
Seventh Edition, and I know this from reading the source code, are the
SCO police going to come after me?
eric
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142223.JAA04880 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: nondisclosure clause in SCO license
To: eric at fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:22 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199812142217.QAA03614 at fudge.uchicago.edu> from Eric Fischer at "Dec 14, 98 04:17:04 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Eric Fischer:
> Does anyone know how serious SCO is about enforcing the nondisclosure
> clause from the Ancient Unix license? I'm referring to this one:
>
> 8.4 (a) LICENSEE agrees that it shall hold all parts of the
> SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS subject to this Agreement in confidence for
> SCO. LICENSEE further agrees that should it make such disclosure
> of any or all of such SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS (including methods or
> concepts utilized therein) to anyone to whom such disclosure is
> necessary to the use for which rights are granted hereunder,
> LICENSEE shall appropriately notify each such person to whom any
> such disclosure is made that such disclosure is made in
> confidence and shall be kept in confidence and have each such
> person sign a confidentiality agreement containing restrictions
> on disclosure substantially similar to those set forth herein.
>
> So if I mention to someone that (for instance) the Sixth Edition
> version of ed didn't have the "j" command but it was in PWB and the
> Seventh Edition, and I know this from reading the source code, are the
> SCO police going to come after me?
>
> eric
I hope not Eric. I'll ask SCO for their impressions, and will pass them
back on to the mailing list.
Warren
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:31:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin@coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: PDP-11/73 problems
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I recently bought a PDP-11/73. It has one RD-52A MFM hard drive that
boots up to RSTS, eight serial ports (besides the console), and what looks
like a SCSI connector on the back (labeled TK25, so I assume this is the
tape drive connector).
I have connected it to my PC and I am able to either boot it up from the
hard drive or start up into the ROM monitor. Unfortunately, at this point
I can't continue because the PDP won't receive anything through the
console serial port.
Does anybody know if there are any quirks about the serial port on this
machine that would cause this (if, for instance, the PDP-11 required some
sort of handshaking that my PC doesn't do). Also, there is a block of dip
switches on the CPU card that appear to affect booting and serial port
stuff. Does anyone know where there is a list of what these switches
control? Furthermore.... Between the cryptically labeled switch that
chooses monitor or boot mode and the knob that changes the baud rate is a
knob with three settings labeled with an arrow, a talking head, and an
uppercase T with an arrow orbiting it. What does this knob do?
Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
Thanks in advance for all of the help that I know you people will send me.
8^)
-- Erin Corliss
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142230.JAA04928 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 problems
To: erin at coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:30:20 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981214140751.32409C-100000 at coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Dec 14, 98 02:31:14 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Erin W. Corliss:
> Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
> CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
> chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
> kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
> -- Erin Corliss
What version of UNIX are you running on it?
Warren
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Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:59:53 -0500
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:59:53 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA@trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 problems
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>I have connected it to my PC and I am able to either boot it up from the
>hard drive or start up into the ROM monitor. Unfortunately, at this point
>I can't continue because the PDP won't receive anything through the
>console serial port.
Am I correct in assuming that up until RSTS/E is started, the console
serial port seems to work fine? i.e. you can talk to ODT?
>Does anybody know if there are any quirks about the serial port on this
>machine that would cause this (if, for instance, the PDP-11 required some
>sort of handshaking that my PC doesn't do).
RSTS/E might be picky about parity bits in some cases. (Heaven knows
that it's incredibly picky about some other things!)
On the other hand, your PC might not be seeing the RTS/CTS (I forget
which one it'll actually be looking for) and this is the reason your
keystrokes never go out. Or it might not be seeing DSR and refusing
to send keystrokes because of this. Have you configured your comm
software for XON/XOFF and *not* hardware flow control?
> Also, there is a block of dip
>switches on the CPU card that appear to affect booting and serial port
>stuff. Does anyone know where there is a list of what these switches
>control?
From a list that John Wilson supplied to me once:
dip switch near handle
1 on disables console terminal (factory use only)
2-4 off off off boot auto according to the dialog mode settings
off off on boot dev. # 1 in dialog mode settings.
off on off " " 2 "
off on on " " 3 "
on off off " " 4 "
on off on " " 5 "
on on off " " 6 "
on on on if sw. 1 off, power up into ODT
if sw. 1 on , run self-test disg. in a cont loop
5 off enters dialog mode on power up
6-8 on on on 38400 baud rate console.
on on off 19200
on off on 9600
on off off 4800
off on on 2400
off on off 1200
off off on 600
off off off 300
All of these s/b turned OFF if you have the console patch panel rotary
switch connected to the cpu.
rotary switch positions definitions.
switch pos.s v v
baud rate auto boot dialog mode
38400 0 8
19200 1 9
9600 2 10
4800 3 11
2400 4 12
1200 5 13
600 6 14
300 7 15
> Furthermore.... Between the cryptically labeled switch that
>chooses monitor or boot mode and the knob that changes the baud rate is a
>knob with three settings labeled with an arrow, a talking head, and an
>uppercase T with an arrow orbiting it. What does this knob do?
It selects power-on mode. I think arrow means to boot straight from the
default device, talking head means to go to interactive console dialog,
and the T with the circle around it means infinite test loop.
>Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
>CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
>chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
>kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
I'm sure it can be done, but I don't know of any that are easily persuaded
to do this! It'd be far easier to disable your CPU board's console
port and drop in a separate DLV11-type interface.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Unix History Diagram
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:44:25 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
+ SunOS/Solaris
+ SysVR4.x
+ Ultrix
+ Xenix
+ Unixware :-)
+ BSDI stuff
+ lots more
If anybody can supply release dates and relationships for systems that I
don't have yet, could you email them to me with a reference where possible.
This is going to be a back-burner project, I'll do a bit here and there, but
hopefully by sometime next year we'll have a large wall-sized family tree
for UNIX.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov@harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> wrote:
> The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I have looked at it. Note that the data files are not hyperlinked. I
don't think this is intentional, is it?
Being the TUHS 4BSD Coordinator :-), I feel obligated to do some work on
the 4bsd data file. Quoting:
> 3bsd
> Name: 3BSD
> Date: 1980-03
> Reference: last-mod timestamps in Distributions/ucb/3bsd.tar
> Successor to 32V
> Code taken from 2bsd
> # virtual memory, page replacement,
> # demand paging
>
> 4bsd
> Name: 4BSD
> Date: 1980-10
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 164
> Successor to 3bsd
Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always
thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging
probably go with it.
> 4.2bsd
> Name: 4.2BSD
> Date: 1983-09
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 164
> Successor to 4.1cbsd
I would add the following comment:
> # Landmark filesystem change.
> # VAX hardware support extended to 11/730.
> # Now runs on 11/780, 11/750, 11/730.
Further:
> 4.3bsd
> Name: 4.3BSD
> Date: 1986-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.2bsd
I would add:
> Code taken from DEC Ultrix with DEC's blessing
> # DNS added to the standard libc
> # (no MX records in Sendmail, though).
> # Added DEC's VAX 8600 and TMSCP support code
> # with DEC's blessing.
> # Added kernel-only support for MicroVAX II
> # (KA630). Without DEC's help!
> # It's unusable, though.
Sorry, I don't know the Ultrix version (don't even know if it's a
release and not some DEC internal code), but it's obviously among the very
first.
Further:
> 4.3tahoe
> Name: 4.3BSD Tahoe
> Date: 1988-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.3bsd
I would add:
> Code taken from CCI's 4.2BSD-based vendor release
> # tahoe architecture support added.
> # VAX hardware support enhancements:
> # MicroVAX II (KA630) support made actually
> # usable and extended to support QVSS and
> # QDSS graphics.
> # VAX 8200 support added by Chris Torek.
> # New drivers for disk MSCP (U/Q and BI).
> # No distribution tapes for VAX ever shipped,
> # though.
> # MX record support in Sendmail!
Further:
> 4.3reno
> Name: 4.3BSD Reno
> Date: 1990-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.3tahoe
I would add:
> Influenced by Sun and DEC vendor systems (NFS and /var)
> # experimental hp300 architecture support added.
> # MicroVAX support extended to KA650 (MicroVAX III)
> # everywhere except the tmscp bootblock.
Back to Warren:
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
> + SunOS/Solaris
> [...]
> + Ultrix
I know that SunOS and Ultrix played key roles in the history of BSD
(huge bidirectional exchange of code and ideas between CSRG, Sun, and DEC),
but I don't know anything about versions and such.
> + BSDI stuff
Just like 386BSD, FreeBSD, and NetBSD, it's based on Net/2, 4.4BSD-Lite,
and 4.4BSD-Lite2. That's all I know.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET
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To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
In-reply-to: Your message of "15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT."
<199812150323.IAA09225 at harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:10:48 -0800
From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick@mckusick.com>
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
...
Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always
thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging
probably go with it.
The first virtual memory release was 3BSD. It's performance was
significantly improved in 4BSD.
Kirk
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
References: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Tuesday, 15 December 1998 at 10:44:25 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> All,
>
> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
>
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
>> SunOS/Solaris
>> SysVR4.x
>> Ultrix
>> Xenix
>> Unixware :-)
>> BSDI stuff
>> lots more
>
> If anybody can supply release dates and relationships for systems that I
> don't have yet, could you email them to me with a reference where possible.
OK, I've dragged out some old tapes which may be of some interest:
Tandem NonStop UX for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System V.2, 10
April 1987.
Tandem NonStop-UX B00 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System
V.3.0, dated 22 August 1989.
Tandem NonStop-UX B10 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System
V.3.1, dated 20 September 1989.
Consensys UNIX System V.4.2.1.0, in PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm mode (yup,
that's what it says). I'm not sure how reliable this is, but the
first package has the PSTAMP destiny921114141358, which presumably can
be interpreted as a date; certainly it's plausible.
BSD BSD/386, version 0.3.2. The tar archive has the date Feb 28 09:18
1992 on the first few files; presumably this is US MST.
Univel Unixware 1.0, also this funny PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm. This one has
a PSTAMP=SVR4.2 11/02/92. I'd assume that they really meant 2
November 1992.
I've got a number of old CDs which I haven't looked at yet. I'd guess
that I have most FreeBSD releases, and we can find the rest.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:20:37 -0500
From: Joey KAHN <kahn@tholian.net>
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To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
CC: Unix Heritage Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
References: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> <19981215180615.H15815 at freebie.lemis.com>
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Found this on a sun web page:
SunOS Solaris FCS Comments
OpenWindows
----------- ------- ------- ---------------------------
-----------
3.2
3.3
3.4
3.5
4.0
4.0.2 Sept 89 (386i Roadrunner)
4.0.3 May 89 (Sun2, Sun3/3x, Sun4)
4.0.3c June 89 (SPARC Sun4c only)
4.0.3 PSR_A July 89 (SPARC 470/490 only)
4.1 Mar 90 (3/3x/4/4c except 470/490)
4.1 PSR_A May 90 (SPARC only for 390/490)
4.1.1 1.0 Nov 90 (All Sun3/4's)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.1B Feb 91 (SPARC only)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.1.1 July 91 (CTE patches for Sun3/3x)
4.1.1_U1 Nov 91 (Last Sun3/3x release)
4.1.2 1.0.1 Dec 91 (SPARC + Sun4m/600MP Ross)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.3 1.1A Aug 92 (All SPARC+MP,Viking S10) OW3.0
4.1.3c 1.1C Nov 93 (LX and Classic only) OW3.0
4.1.3_U1 1.1.1 Dec 93 (SPARC,LX,Classic/no-sun4d) OW3.0
4.1.3_U1b 1.1.1B Feb 94 (SPARC3.5/S10,4mm & all 1.1s) OW3.0
4.1.4 1.1.2 Sep 94 (SPARC4m [Colorado CPUs]+new
WS)
5.0 2.0 July 92 (Desktop Sun4c only) OW3.0
5.1 2.1 Dec 92 (All SPARC/no-1000/2000) OW3.1
5.2 2.2 May 93 (All SPARC + 1000/2000) OW3.2
5.3 2.3 Nov 93 (All SPARC + SS10SX) OW3.3
5.3 2.3 5/94 Mar 94 (SS5-audio & Voyager) OW3.3
5.3 2.3 8/94 Sep 94 (All SPARC+SSA+S24 fb)
5.4 2.4 Dec 94 (All SPARC + Intel) OW3.4
5.4 2.4 3/95 Mar 95 (All SPARC+SSA) OW3.4
5.5 2.5 Nov 95 (All SPARC+Fusion-[NO SUN4/SUN4E]+SSA)
OW3.5
All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
to be...
More research: first patch in Sun patch library:
Patch-ID# 100001-01
Keywords: cc stack overflow local variable
Synopsis: C compiler: stack overflow: too many local variables
Date: 20-Apr-88
SunOS release:
3.4, 3.5
Sun's bug database still contains bug reports going back to 3.2 (heck,
even 2.2 and 1.0) but none of them have dates ;(((
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812151504.KAA26443 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Dec 15, 98 10:44:25 am"
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:04:11 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> All,
>
> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
>
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
> + SunOS/Solaris
> + SysVR4.x
> + Ultrix
> + Xenix
> + Unixware :-)
> + BSDI stuff
> + lots more
A couple of lesser known BSDish oddities from Big Blue....
Add IBM's AOS. That was a straight 4.3BSD port dating from 1987 or 1988.
This was the only official port for the RT-PC hardware.
Add IBM's unofficial ``Reno'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.3/4.4
port dating from 1991 or 1992. It was apparently done by IBM or IBM
contractors. It looks very straight 4.4, in appearance.
Add IBM's unoffical ``4.4Lite'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.4
and the real Lite dating from 1994 or 1995. It was apparently done by
IBM or IBM contractors, with source trees from two development streams
combined together to resolve developmental divergences.
They all were used on the RT-PC hardware (ROMP Risc processor).
The 4.3 is very nice. Code size about 75 megs binary. It runs fine
on a small machine with 8 megs ram and 115 megs HD, or the biggest
RT class machine. The C compilers are slightly broken, but usually
can be worked around (good old pcc seems the best).
The Reno is fair to good, but missing things like working tape I/O.
You can tar or dump, but no other tape functions work correctly.
Code size about 150 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
I dunno exactly how ``Reno'' it really is.
The 4.4Lite is fair to good, but still missing working tape I/O.
Code size about 300 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
Bloat seems to have set in on this one, since the whole system is
well over 1 gig in size. It barely will run on two 300mb HD.
The login says it is 4.4Lite and not straight 4.4. There is no
indication of how pure ``Lite'' it really is.
I dunno anything about how these originated developmentally, but
the AOS seems to be vanilla 4.3BSD and all else may have developed
from that, possibly after the RT line became back-burner stuff.
I would be very interested in any history from anyone on the list
that was around IBM at the time on these.
.......
Add Xenix for the Radio Shack 16B machines on 8 inch floppers.
That seems to date from around 1982 or 1983, although I have
misplaced my disks on that one, and don't have the machine anymore.
I was thinking someone on the list had one of those beasts running?
That is all I can think of offhand to add.....
Bob Keys
p.s. Anyone got a spare V7ish Xenix they would part with for x86
hardware? I would like to try a native suite rather than
an emulator, if possible. There were one or two such ports
I am thinking like Xenix, Microport, or PC-IX maybe? I just
missed one a few days ago at out state surplus house, when I
picked it up, looked at it, set it down, and then someone
else grabbed it... oh, well....(:+{{.....
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812151836.NAA26799 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <19981215122947.B11834 at rek.tjls.com> from Thor Lancelot Simon at "Dec 15, 98 12:29:47 pm"
To: tls at rek.tjls.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:36:37 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys)
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> > A couple of lesser known BSDish oddities from Big Blue....
> >
> > Add IBM's AOS. That was a straight 4.3BSD port dating from 1987 or 1988.
> > This was the only official port for the RT-PC hardware.
>
> I have a paper about this port which claims that it's in fact tahoe or so,
> and has an independent implementation of mmap(). I'll try to dig it up --
>
> I think it was in one of the old Waite Group books.
Please do! I would like to see that. I did see at one time Tahoe
mentioned, but I did not understand how the IBM ports were related
through that. There are so few folks around that know anything about
these IBM critters, even on the old RT newsfeed. Most of the stuff
has become dumpster fodder, sadly, although I had the good fortune
this past week to resurrect two RT's from the dumpster, and get one
up by combining sufficient parts to get it to boot.
What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
on non-standard hardware? The books get somewhat obscure on this
unless running VAXen or HP300's or such. The RT is a little bit
non-standard. I was thinking it was a 68000ish machine in IBM's
wrappers, but others have said it was distinctly different from a
68000 based line. Also, I can't find anyone that was in on the
AOS project enough to know from whence it was originally derived.
The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then?
Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June
of 1988 (Salus, p. 165). Anyone around CSRG then that remembers
when IBM got what code? Salus does not mention any IBM AOS stuff,
only the mainframe stuff. AOS seems to be mostly a sleeper, almost
forgotten in time.
.....
> > Add IBM's unoffical ``4.4Lite'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.4
> > and the real Lite dating from 1994 or 1995. It was apparently done by
> > IBM or IBM contractors, with source trees from two development streams
> > combined together to resolve developmental divergences.
>
> Someone here had a tape of this, yes?
There is a Finnish repository that has some of it relating to the 4.3
port, and one or two other RTish archives. Try something like jumo.luti.fi,
or jumi.luto.fi, or something like that, but I don't have the url exactly,
and can't find the stick'em note where I ran across it.
Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure. I would
hope the old RT boxes and AOS would fall under the Antique Unix umbrella,
and thus, be amenable to the PUPS archives scope of things. But, I
am only a newbie voice in the crowd.....
From what I have found out, there were two install tapes and two boot
floppies.
The main boot floppy is the sautils disk (stand alone utilities).
That then loads a miniroot floppy that does the scripted install.
The scripts don't work unless you have the original tapes, and
the orignal hardware configuration which was a pair of 70mb esdi
drives. The installation needs to be done manually, instead, if
the hardware differs from that. It should be a straight 4.3 style
restore process. I guess they expected only to have dual 70mb
esdi drives in the old RT tower machines, as AOS platforms.
The first tape is the combined root and user dumps to hd0a and hd0g.
The second tape is the source tree dump to hd1g.
> The AOS releases I saw all came with source. I wish IBM would donate the
> bits they wrote -- much information on ROMP processor bugs, etc. simply
> doesn't exist anywhere else.
That is how I understand it. There were some manuals for it, but
noone seems to know anything about those anymore, and what info I
have is more sketchy than for sure. There was also some other machine
called an ``Academic Machine'' that was a siamesed ROMP processor
on a Model 60 PS/2 MCA bus machine. I have not exactly understood
how that thing actually worked, and noone on the net seems to have
one, although there are two ROMP boards that are reputed to still
exist that plug into the MCA Model 60 PS/2 box. Apparently the
Model 60 was the terminal/disk IO system and the ROMP board ran
the BSD.
> Patches to fix this circulated widely -- I recall one _very_ late night
> in Bill Cattey's office at Athena waiting for someone in Stockholm to
> send us a patch so we could make some tapes I needed the next morning.
The thing will tar/dump to the tape, but won't retension or erase
correctly. If you know what that patch was, I would be interested
in it, for sure. I assume it has to do with something like twiddling
the right hardware ports with the right bit patterns, maybe, to run
the retension and erase functions on the hardware. I am curious,
though, and wonder if something like the 4.3 mt, which does work,
would work correctly in the Lite suite. I was of the impression
that there was some binary compatibility between 4.3 and 4.4/4.4-Lite,
but I am not sure.
.....
> > The 4.4Lite is fair to good, but still missing working tape I/O.
> > Code size about 300 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
> > Bloat seems to have set in on this one, since the whole system is
> > well over 1 gig in size. It barely will run on two 300mb HD.
> > The login says it is 4.4Lite and not straight 4.4. There is no
> > indication of how pure ``Lite'' it really is.
>
> Wow, I wonder if it really is "Lite". Again... I wish IBM would free
> the relevant bits, we've wanted for a long time to make NetBSD run on
> these beasts. One major obstacle is that nobody at IBM seems to even
> know where the "official" sources are, or who would have authority to
> turn them over.
I have no idea how pure or impure the code is. I came along so late
in the song and dance act that I don't know enough of the internals
to compare, yet. So much to learn..... Years ago I bounced this
off our IBM rep, but went to AIX on the PS/2, instead of the RT BSD.
I did not know very much then, nor now....(:+{{.....
> > I dunno anything about how these originated developmentally, but
> > the AOS seems to be vanilla 4.3BSD and all else may have developed
> > from that, possibly after the RT line became back-burner stuff.
> > I would be very interested in any history from anyone on the list
> > that was around IBM at the time on these.
>
> Me too.
Who all on the list were IBM'ers in that era that might still remember
enough of this to fill us in? The history is half the fun, and sure
makes the perspective on the rest more interesting and well rounded.
Anyone on the list actually playing around and running an RT?
I am beginning to feel very lowendian that I am not on a PDP11, VAX,
HP300 or such.....{:+{{... but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
Bob Keys
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov@harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 19:14:23 GMT
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: A program to read tapes in a snap
Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
While exchanging tapes and tape images with a number of people on this list, I
have mentioned the existence of this program to a number of people, but so far
I haven't given it to anyone. Now I'm posting it to the list for everyone's
benefit. This program can read a tape on a UNIX box without the user having to
know anything about its format. This program automatically determines how many
files are on the tape, what is the record size for each, and whether there are
any oddities such as partial records. It saves each tape file into a separate
disk file and produces a log of everything found on the tape.
It's a simple C program and should compile and run on virtually any UNIX or
UNIX-like system. The original version was written by one guy I met on another
list once and then it was significantly enhanced by me. I include it below as
a uuencoded gzipped tarball.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET
Enclosure: uuencoded cptape.tar.gz:
begin 644 cptape.tar.gz
M'XL("`ZQ=C8``V-P=&%P92YT87(`[5AM4QLW$.:K]2L$-(,-QOC`.!D[ID,(
MM&D)S$#2-YKIB#N=?<-9<N_D&)KPW[N[.OGN'%+:SD`^Y'8FPTE:[<NS;W)>
MBRL91K%<>D#RVNUNI\.7./?:W1W\RSN[M+;D=9YRWNWN[.[NM+>];6)K[R[Q
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BEW[O5U1111555%%%%5544445551115\?_0UI&$I7`"@``)6Q
`
end
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Barron <pat@transarc.com>
Reply-To: Pat Barron <pat at transarc.com>
To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <199812151836.NAA26799 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> [...] The RT is a little bit
> non-standard. I was thinking it was a 68000ish machine in IBM's
> wrappers, but others have said it was distinctly different from a
> 68000 based line.
No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU. I have a processor reference
for the C-ROMP (the CMOS version that was on the 6152 Academic
Workstation), but I only have hardcopy.
> Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
> hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now
to someone who might be able to help.
> There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
> but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure.
Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the
Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though,
and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around.
> [...] There was also some other machine
> called an ``Academic Machine'' that was a siamesed ROMP processor
> on a Model 60 PS/2 MCA bus machine. I have not exactly understood
> how that thing actually worked, and noone on the net seems to have
> one, although there are two ROMP boards that are reputed to still
> exist that plug into the MCA Model 60 PS/2 box. Apparently the
> Model 60 was the terminal/disk IO system and the ROMP board ran
> the BSD.
I have one in my living room.... Yes, your description is pretty much
correct. The C-ROMP co-processor plugs into the Model 60 (though I don't
know why it couldn't be used with another type of Microchannel PS/2). The
co-processor card has the C-ROMP CPU, support hardware, and memory. To
IPL the thing, you run a DOS program on the PS/2 that loads the boot
program into the C-ROMP memory, and twiddles some bits that start the
processor. The C-ROMP board pretty much takes over the machine, and uses
the PS/2 itself as an I/O processor.
--Pat.
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