* Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
@ 1998-12-15 20:04 Michael Sokolov
0 siblings, 0 replies; only message in thread
From: Michael Sokolov @ 1998-12-15 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> on non-standard hardware?
Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial. If you see
directories like /usr/ucb, /usr/doc, /usr/man, binaries in /etc and in
/usr/lib, and so on, it's pre-Reno. If you see all docs, manpages, etc.
moved into /usr/share, /usr/ucb gone, no binaries in /etc or in /usr/lib,
strange critters appearing like /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/libexec, and
/usr/libdata, it's post-Reno.
Distinguishing between plain-4.3-based and Tahoe-based non-UCB systems
can be tough, and, frankly, pointless. Aside from hardware issues, the
noticeable differences between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe are the location of
source-form manpages (/usr/man/man[1-8] on 4.3, /usr/src/man/man[1-8] on
Tahoe), MX record support in Sendmail (present in Tahoe but not in 4.3),
and the Olson timezone implementation, i.e., that big pile of zoneinfo
files (again present in Tahoe but not in 4.3).
The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
different from CSRG's. Vendors often take different pieces from different
systems on a subjective basis. A vendor release can have the feature set of
one system and the look and feel of another. For example, Ultrix V4.0 has
the classical pre-Reno look and feel, but yet is POSIXized to about the
same extent as Reno. Thus the blurb above about telling between pre-Reno
and post-Reno systems refers to the look and feel of a system, not to its
feature set. The plain 4.3 vs. Tahoe distinction doesn't really hold in
vendor systems either. Ultrix V4.0 has MX record support in Sendmail, but
its man mechanism is plain 4.3 vintage. Don't remember if there were
zoneinfo files there or not.
/var also has an interesting story. In the BSD line it appears in Reno,
but it originates in SunOS and Ultrix, systems with pre-Reno look and feel
on which a number of directories were moved from /usr to the newly-created
/var. Thus on 4.3 or 4.3-Tahoe you have /usr/spool/mail, on SunOS and
Ultrix you have /var/spool/mail, and on Reno and later you have /var/mail.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
> The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then?
The Tahoe tape shipped in the summer of 1988, but of course the work at
CSRG was going all the time.
> Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June
> of 1988 (Salus, p. 165).
Correct.
> but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
machine as a standard VAX.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152005.PAA27002 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981215141724.4474C-100000 at smithfield.transarc.com> from Pat Barron at "Dec 15, 98 02:34:00 pm"
To: pat at transarc.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:05:16 -0500 (EST)
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> On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU.
OK.
> > Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
> > hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
>
> That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now
> to someone who might be able to help.
Oh, now that might be interesting. Maybe the old AOS BSD will roll again!
> > There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
> > but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure.
>
> Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the
> Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though,
> and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around.
All I could find was one more recent fellow that had a ROMP board and
a set of BSD tapes for it, but he had not apparently gotten it running.
Also, most of the original folks seemed to be gone. Most everyone
I have run into has wanted to run AIX on the RT hardware instead of BSD.
I am beginning to feel like the odd man out if I shun AIX on the RT.
> I have one in my living room....
Gee, that make 3 extant boards and 1 real live machine! Neato!
Have you had yours up with a BSD? Anyone for a BSD rolling party?
Sounds like a little interest, maybe?
I wish Blue would donate that to the PUPS archives, yup, yup, yup.
That would be a nice gesture, and ought to be worth some PR brownies
for them. Technically, would that not fall under the Ancient Unix,
umbrella, anyway? That would be a legalese mumbo jumbo to sort out,
though, and not my forte.
Bob
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152110.QAA27141 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <199812152005.BAA10743 at harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 08:04:56 pm"
To: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:10:49 -0500 (EST)
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> "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> > a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> > on non-standard hardware?
>
> Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial.
..... Lotsa neat info for us lesser newbie types.
My main reason for asking was to try to place the AOS historically.
It is definitely pre-Reno, and the manpages are in user/man/manX
as to source pages. I was thinking it had timezones, though.
The compiler was still pcc, and a custom Hi-Tech C thing called hc.
> The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
> vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
> usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
> different from CSRG's.
Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
developmentally.
> Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
> disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
> certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
> filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
> that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
later releases. fsck has a field day if an update to one of the later
after-AOS builds is installed.
What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
The last build was in the 4xx range, and dated 1996, IFF I am remembering
right. It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level. Are there key file system
dates or revision levels that would help to indicate how late it is?
......
> > but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> > in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
>
> Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
> is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
> console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
> machine as a standard VAX.
It is so ugly, noone in their normal PCish minds locally should bid on
it. So, maybe I will have a chance at it in a reasonable sort of way.
The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
a TK70 tape, but I was unable to open it up on the pallet and see what
was inside. There were no other bits and pieces with it. I was thinking
I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort, as a bare-bones
system in the basement. How would the front/back cover open up, so
I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
If it has been gutted, I would probably pass, but if it was mostly
there, it might be worth looking at.
> Sincerely,
> Michael Sokolov
Thanks!
Bob Keys
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812152217.JAA06715 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:17:01 +1100 (EST)
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All,
Goodness, that was a lot of email :-) I spent the night playing with
the Graphviz tools, and my first drawing of the UNIX family tree is now on
the web page I mentioned yesterday
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I've fixed the broken HTML so that Lynx will read the pages. I haven't
had a chance to convert all the version/date information that was sent in,
and I probably won't get to it before January.
Mind you, if people convert it into the file format I'm using, and mail it
to me, then it will be included immediately :-)
Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, and I'll get to it eventually.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov@harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:31:08 GMT
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> [...] the manpages are in user/man/manX
> as to source pages.
This is definitely plain 4.3 vintage, not Tahoe vintage. This does not
necessarily mean that other parts of the system are straight 4.3, though,
they could easily be Tahoe vintage. What version of Sendmail does it ship
with?
> I was thinking it had timezones, though.
Well, every UNIX system has some kind of timezone system, the question
is what kind. On plain 4.3 it just remembers "OK, I'm 8 hours behind
Greenwich" or so. On Tahoe it has a pile of zoneinfo files trying to
describe the timezone and daylight saving time rules for every city in the
world. I think these files are in /etc/zoneinfo, or maybe
/usr/lib/zoneinfo, something like that.
> Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
> I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Well, that's good.
> Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
> developmentally.
Then why don't you take its source and the sources for 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe,
or whatever you suspect it is, and see for yourself? In my directory on
minnie (Distributions/4bsd) you can find the full sources for 4.3 (both
plain and Rev 2), but unfortunately not for Tahoe (Rick Copeland hasn't
been able to read that part of the Tahoe tape due to media defects).
However, the CSRG Archives CD-ROMs have the full sources for everything,
including Tahoe.
> OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
> later releases.
Is the command actually called disklabel, or is it called something like
format or chpt? (This is how it's called under SunOS and Ultrix,
respectively, and they are indeed incompatible.)
> What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
If you are trying to tell between 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite, don't bother.
If you system boots, it can't be Lite. "Lite" means that there are no
binaries, only sources, and the sources won't build because about one half
of them is deleted. Now, it's true that there had been some changes to the
source tree between the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite releases. If you want to see
if these changes have been incorporated into your vendor release, check the
Sendmail version number. For 4.4BSD it's 8.1. For 4.4BSD-Lite it's
8.6.something aka 8.7 Beta Rev something.
> It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level.
Since I generally don't do gcc, I don't know anything about its version
numbers. However, just because it's gcc the system has to belong to Class
3. This is my own classification. Class 1 is True UNIX(R). Everything I
develop under Quasijarus Project will also belong to Class 1. It includes
everything from the original PDP-11 UNIX to 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Class 2 is
4.3BSD-Reno. In some respects it's still True UNIX (the compiler is pcc and
the kernel is 90% pure), but in other respects it's fallen (the directory
hierarchy is turned upside down and the evil spirit of POSIX starts to
creep in). Class 3 is Net/2, 4.4BSD-*, and Free/Net/OpenBSD. These are 100%
fallen (the evil spirit POSIX runs the sinful world, VAX support in the
kernel permanently broken, the compiler is gcc).
> The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
> a TK70 tape [...]
What else do you need? The disks are internal, and you do have a tape
drive. In fact, not just "a" tape drive, but a TK70, one of the best.
Unfortunately it can't write TK50 tapes, but it can read them, and its
native format is 3 times denser than the TK50 one and much faster too.
> I was thinking
> I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort [...]
Sure! You say it's badged as a VAXstation, so you'll probably need to
pull two or three boards out to make it use the serial console.
> [...] as a bare-bones system [...]
What do you mean "bare-bones"? It's a VAX! What can be more powerful? It
has a KA650 CPU, which is not bad at all (2.8 VUPs), and you can upgrade it
to a KA655 (3.8 VUPs) or KA660 (5 VUPs) with a single board swap (the
memory is the same for all). KA650/655 is already supported by 4.3BSD-Reno
and Ultrix, and will be supported by 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 as soon as I
release it. KA660 is not supported yet, but it will only take a dozen lines
or so to add this support.
> How would the front/back cover open up, so
> I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
(KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
stuff there you are even more lucky.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
In-Reply-To: <199812152231.DAA10882 at harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 10:31:08 pm"
To: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:19 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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> > How would the front/back cover open up, so
> > I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
>
> There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
> trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
> backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
> labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
> (KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
> controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
> all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
> stuff there you are even more lucky.
This one does not have a handle that I can find. There is a sliding
door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc. If that key is the
handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Bob
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov@harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:54:10 GMT
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> There is a sliding
> door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
> of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc.
The sliding window (yes, the DEC docs call it a window and not a door)
and the key are there to control access to the tape drive, to the disk
drive control buttons, to the HALT button, to the power switch, and to the
handle that opens the front door (the one you are looking for). The key has
3 positions: top. middle, and bottom. When the key is in the top position,
the window cannot be lowered at all, and the machine is secure. When the
key is in the middle position, the window can be lowered partially, and you
can access the tape drive, the disk drive control buttons, and the halt
button, but not the power switch or the front door handle. When the key is
in the bottom position, the window can be lowered completely and you can
access everything.
> If that key is the
> handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
> to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
> is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
> the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Turn the key to the bottom position. Lower the window all the way down.
Near the bottom of the opening you'll see the power switch and the handle
I'm talking about. This handle moves horizontally (left and right). I don't
have one of those boxes in front of me and I don't remember whether you
need to push it to the left or to the right, but I'm sure you can figure it
out experimentally.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov at harrier.Uznet.NET
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From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc@zach1.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199812160525.AAA19173 at zach1.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: kahn at tholian.net (Joey KAHN)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:32 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <36766225.6955995B at tholian.net> from "Joey KAHN" at Dec 15, 98 08:20:37 am
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> All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> to be...
I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
July 1986.
- Jim
--
James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc at zach1.tiac.net
6 Munroe Drive
Plainville, MA 02762-1108 ICBM: 42 00' 15"N 71 20' 00"W
PGP: 7ADE9D99 Fingerprint: 8D AF 63 EC D3 51 14 3E F1 59 8A 68 32 63 3F 8E
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812160525.AAA19173 at zach1.tiac.net> from "James E. Carpenter" at "Dec 16, 98 00:25:32 am"
To: jimc at zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
Cc: kahn at tholian.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> > to be...
>
> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>
> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
> July 1986.
Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
Thanks
Bob Keys
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From: Eric Fischer <eric@fudge.uchicago.edu>
To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
References: <199812142344.KAA05594 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Organization: The University of Chicago
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> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate.
Here are a few dates I was able to find, in the format from your
web page:
sysV
Name: System V
Date: 1983-01
Reference: System V Release Description, title page
sysVr2
Name: System V Release 2
Date: 1984-04
Reference: System V manual for 3B2, title page
sunos2
Name: SunOS 2.0
Date: 1985-05-15
Reference: SunOS 2.0 manual, title page
sunos3
Name: SunOS 3.0
Date: 1986-02-17
Reference: SunOS 3.0 manual, title page
pwb1.0
Name: PWB/UNIX 1.0
Date: 1977-07-1
Reference: /usr/news/pibs in the archived PWB distribution
# prerelease test versions: 1977-06-6, 1977-06-13
eric
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Billy Stivers <alyosha@vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Billy Stivers <alyosha at vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
To: jimc at zach1.tiac.net, rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu
Cc: kahn at tholian.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Hey, Robert-
do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
--Bill
>From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
>To: jimc at zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
>Cc: kahn at tholian.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
>> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
>> > to be...
>>
>> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>>
>> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>
>> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
>> July 1986.
>
>Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
>of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
>Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
>Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
>in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
>though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
>Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
>QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob Keys
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161829.NAA28899 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912 at vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha at vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:29:27 -0500 (EST)
Cc: jimc at zach1.tiac.net, kahn at tholian.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
>
> >Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
> >of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
> >Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
> >Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
> >in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
> >though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
> >Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
> >QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
I think there is great potential in all of this.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT.....
Sun apparently gave the OK to a German archive site to put the the stuff
on-line. That is, in fact, where I picked up my sun3 tapes to resurrect
my old box. It only seems be be pre-sparc related 68000 based stuff.
The details were given on the web site, and were discussed on one
of the Sun newsfeeds.
Try the http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ site, and it is explained
there. The guy actually got Sun to OK it, as far as I know, but
I have no idea of the exact legalese involved, but memory tells
me it was Sun Germany that gave the go-ahead on it.
The site may have moved to http://sun3arc.krupp.net, since I was
thinking a move was in progress a couple of months back.
I think I got to it via a link from www.sunhelp.com or www.sunfreeware.com.
The idea occurred to me that IFF Sun has gone that far, we should check
into putting the older releases there, too, as they may still exist.
Also, perhaps, as they would fit under the Ancient Unix umbrella, I would
think, then PUPS/UHS should likewise take an interest in such potential.
I would be of the opinion that any of the pre-SysIII/SysV related stuff,
in addition to the purist ATT/Berkeley releases ought to be put back for
archival use, too, as it should be covered under the Ancient Unix umbrella.
If I am too far off on that, let me know. I am but a very minor newbie
bit player in all of this.
Bob Keys
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161843.NAA28957 at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS Tapes for UHS archives?????
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912 at vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha at vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:43:43 -0500 (EST)
Cc: jimc at zach1.tiac.net, kahn at tholian.net, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
It would be fun to see some of Bill Joy's hacks....(:+}}.....
I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net
and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a
Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education.
One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem
to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible.
The sun3arc site only has binaries, though.
I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind
of binary and source arrangement, perhaps?
Someone other than the tailwagging newbie here, should persue
this and see where it goes?
Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}.....
Bob Keys
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:47:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin@coffee.corliss.net>
Reply-To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin at coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP-11/73
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So get this...
I downloaded the machine emulators package and the binaries for Unix
version 7 from the PUPS ftp site, hoping that I could use it to create a
bootable disk image to put on my PDP-11/73 that would run getty on one of
the serial ports besides the console... I compiled the emulators on a
Slackware Linux 2.0.30 machine, and they seemed to compile OK. From the
emulator I followed the instructions for booting Unix 7. I had the
following error every time I tried booting:
Trap stack push abort, PC: 004567 (MOV R3,(SP))
Anybody have a clue why this is happening?
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1998-12-15 20:04 Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks Michael Sokolov
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