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[173.48.168.163]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 73-v6sm11719425qkc.96.2018.06.23.08.35.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Jun 2018 08:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Clem cole X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15F79) In-Reply-To: <04190921-6f50-a643-63f7-41f3bfd0b7e5@update.uu.se> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:35:55 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1A6A6B78-974A-4B4B-B29A-70DC15088038@ccc.com> References: <48b2a3f8-66ca-2527-f471-062eead1c6fe@update.uu.se> <04190921-6f50-a643-63f7-41f3bfd0b7e5@update.uu.se> To: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: [TUHS] Old mainframe I/O speed X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Ah. Maybe I understand where you are coming (or may be not). What the form= al marketing names were on the street - I never much worried about. I=E2=80= =99ve always followed the engineering path between the teams on the inside a= nd the technologies and never cared what the marketing people named them.=20= What we now call pci was developed as the io bus for turbo laser as part of = Alpha. It needed to be cheap, fast and expandable to 64 bits. Intel and t= he PC did not have anything coming that could do that and the DEC folks knew= that. =20 Anyway. You may also remember intel tripped over 10 patents in the mid 90s w= hen Penguin magically caught up in one generation and DEC sued Intel - my fa= vorite Andy Grove quote - =E2=80=9Cthere is nothing left to steal.=E2=80=9D = One of the patents was part of the pci bus technology. You are probably co= rrect that it was sourced at dec as part of the turbochannel program - I don= =E2=80=99t remember. But the result of the suit was that the guts of pci w= as licensed by intel from DEC. I played a very very small part of it all th= at a long time ago. The NDAs have probably all expired but I generally don=E2= =80=99t talk much more about it that what I have. =20 When it was all said and done AMD got the Alpha memory bus (K7 and EV6 are e= lectrical brothers) and the industry got PCI. =20 BTW. When I came to Intel I do know there was still grumbling about license= fees to then HP. I=E2=80=99m not sure how all that was finally resolved b= ut I believe it has been as part of the Itainium stuff but I=E2=80=99ve not b= een a part of any of that. =20 Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.= =20 > On Jun 23, 2018, at 7:57 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: >=20 >> On 2018-06-23 13:39, Clem cole wrote: >> PCI was a late 1980s DEC design bus design that where released via licens= e ala the Ethernet experience of the xerox/dec/Intel blue book. DEC had mo= stly learned it lesson that interface standards were better shared. I=E2=80= =99ve forgotten now the name of the person who lead the team. I did not kno= w him very well. I can picture his face as I said. >=20 > It's just that this sounds so much like the TURBOchannel (not Turbobus as I= wrote previously). That bus exactly matches your description of details, ti= melines and circumstances, while the PCI, to my knowledge don't match at all= . >=20 > And my recollection also matches Wikipedia, which even gives the PCI V1.0 s= pec being released in 1992. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_= PCI) >=20 > Compare to TURBOchannel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TURBOchannel >=20 > Johnny >=20 >=20 >> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not qui= te. >>>> On Jun 23, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:= >>>>=20 >>>> On 2018-06-22 20:01, Clem Cole wrote: >>>> One of the other BI people, who's name now escapes me, although I can s= ee >>>> his face in my mind, maybe I'll think of it later), would go on to do t= he >>>> PCI for Alpha a couple of years later. As I said, DEC did manage to g= et >>>> that one public, after the BI was made private as Erik points out. >>>=20 >>> Clem, I think I saw you say something similar in an earlier post. >>> To me it sounds as if you are saying that DEC did/designed PCI. >>> Are you sure about that? As far as I know, PCI was designed and created b= y Intel, and the first users were just plain PC machines. >>> Alpha did eventually also get PCI, but it was not where it started, and D= EC had no control at all about PCI being public. >>>=20 >>> Might you have been thinking of Turbobus, Futurebus, or some other thing= that DEC did? Or do you have some more information about DEC being the crea= tor of PCI? >>>=20 >>> Johnny >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus >>> || on a psychedelic trip >>> email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books >>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol