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* Re: [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)
@ 2020-01-15  4:54 Brian Walden
  2020-01-15  8:02 ` markus schnalke
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Brian Walden @ 2020-01-15  4:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:
>markus schnalke <meillo at marmaro.de> writes:
>> [2015-11-09 08:58] Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>> things like "cut" and "paste", whose exact provenance
>>> I can't recall.
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to share my portrait of
>> cut(1) with you. (I sent some questions to this list, a few
>> months ago, remember?) Now, here it is:
>>
>>      http://marmaro.de/docs/freiesmagazin/cut/cut.en.pdf
>
>Did you happen to find out what GWRL stands for, in the the comments at
>the top of early versions of cut.c and paste.c?
>
>/* cut : cut and paste columns of a table (projection of a relation) (GWRL) */
>/* Release 1.5; handles single backspaces as produced by nroff    */
>/* paste: concatenate corresponding lines of each file in parallel. Release 1.4 (GWRL) */
>/*        (-s option: serial concatenation like old (127's) paste command */
>
>For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to?

I know this thread is almost 5 years old, I came across it searching for
something else But as no one could answer these questions back then, I can.

GWRL stands for Gottfried W. R. Luderer, the author of cut(1) and paste(1),
probably around 1978.  Those came either from PWB or USG, as he worked with,
or for, Berkley Tague. Thus they made their way into AT&T commercial UNIX,
first into System III and the into System V, and that's why they are missing
from early BSD releases as they didn't get into Research UNIX until the
8th Edition.  Also "127" was the internal department number for the Computer
Science Research group at Bell Labs where UNIX originated

Dr. Luderer co-authored this paper in the orginal 1978 BSTJ on UNIX --
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Papers/BSTJ/bstj57-6-2201.pdf

I knew Dr. Luderer and he was even kind enough to arrange for me stay with his
relatives for a few days in Braunschweig, West Germany (correct county name for
the time) on my first trip to Europe many decades ago. But haven't had contact nor
even thought of him forever until I saw his initials. I also briefly worked for Berk
when he was the department head for 45263 in Whippany Bell Labs before moving to
Murray Hill.

And doing a quick search for him, it looks like he wrote and autobiograhy, which I
am now going to have to purchase
http://www.lulu.com/shop/gottfried-luderer/go-west-young-german/paperback/product-23385772.html?ppn=1

-Brian

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)
  2020-01-15  4:54 [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) Brian Walden
@ 2020-01-15  8:02 ` markus schnalke
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: markus schnalke @ 2020-01-15  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Hoi,

thanks a lot for sharing these yet missing pieces of information
and the stories. Very interesting.


meillo


[2020-01-14 23:54] Brian Walden <tuhs@cuzuco.com>
> Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com> writes:
> >markus schnalke <meillo at marmaro.de> writes:
> >> [2015-11-09 08:58] Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu>
> >>> things like "cut" and "paste", whose exact provenance
> >>> I can't recall.
> >>
> >> Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to share my portrait of
> >> cut(1) with you. (I sent some questions to this list, a few
> >> months ago, remember?) Now, here it is:
> >>
> >>      http://marmaro.de/docs/freiesmagazin/cut/cut.en.pdf
> >
> >Did you happen to find out what GWRL stands for, in the the comments at
> >the top of early versions of cut.c and paste.c?
> >
> >/* cut : cut and paste columns of a table (projection of a relation) (GWRL) */
> >/* Release 1.5; handles single backspaces as produced by nroff    */
> >/* paste: concatenate corresponding lines of each file in parallel. Release 1.4 (GWRL) */
> >/*        (-s option: serial concatenation like old (127's) paste command */
> >
> >For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to?
> 
> I know this thread is almost 5 years old, I came across it searching for
> something else But as no one could answer these questions back then, I can.
> 
> GWRL stands for Gottfried W. R. Luderer, the author of cut(1) and paste(1),
> probably around 1978.  Those came either from PWB or USG, as he worked with,
> or for, Berkley Tague. Thus they made their way into AT&T commercial UNIX,
> first into System III and the into System V, and that's why they are missing
> from early BSD releases as they didn't get into Research UNIX until the
> 8th Edition.  Also "127" was the internal department number for the Computer
> Science Research group at Bell Labs where UNIX originated
> 
> Dr. Luderer co-authored this paper in the orginal 1978 BSTJ on UNIX --
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Papers/BSTJ/bstj57-6-2201.pdf
> 
> I knew Dr. Luderer and he was even kind enough to arrange for me stay with his
> relatives for a few days in Braunschweig, West Germany (correct county name for
> the time) on my first trip to Europe many decades ago. But haven't had contact nor
> even thought of him forever until I saw his initials. I also briefly worked for Berk
> when he was the department head for 45263 in Whippany Bell Labs before moving to
> Murray Hill.
> 
> And doing a quick search for him, it looks like he wrote and autobiograhy, which I
> am now going to have to purchase
> http://www.lulu.com/shop/gottfried-luderer/go-west-young-german/paperback/product-23385772.html?ppn=1
> 
> -Brian
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)
@ 2015-11-11 12:41 Norman Wilson
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2015-11-11 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw)


  For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to?

Every organization at AT&T had a number as well as a name.
In the early days of UNIX, the number for Computer Science
Research was 127.  At some point a 1 was prepended, making
it 1127, but old-timers still used the three-digit code.

So it's a good guess that `127's paste command' means
one that came from, or had been modified in, Research.

I don't know when or where, though.  I don't see a paste
command in V7.  paste.c in V8 has exactly the same comment
at the top.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)
  2015-11-11  0:16       ` [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) Random832
@ 2015-11-11 12:23         ` markus schnalke
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: markus schnalke @ 2015-11-11 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw)


[2015-11-10 19:16] Random832 <random832 at fastmail.com>
> 
> Did you happen to find out what GWRL stands for, in the the comments at
> the top of early versions of cut.c and paste.c?
> 
> /* cut : cut and paste columns of a table (projection of a relation) (GWRL) *
> /
> /* Release 1.5; handles single backspaces as produced by nroff    */
> /* paste: concatenate corresponding lines of each file in parallel. Release 1.4 (GWRL) */
> /*        (-s option: serial concatenation like old (127's) paste command */
> 
> For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to?

Unfortunately I have no clue, for neither of them.

To resolve ``GWRL'', insider knowledge seems to be needed. (Or a cool
party with creative buddies, of course! (Today's the opening of the
carnival season in Germany ... that could be an opportunity. :-D ))

``127'', whatever system that might be, it surely predates UNIX.
Background knowledge from the time back then will be necessary.

I can provide neither of them ... and searching for such stuff is
difficult because the terms and their context are too generic.
(``cut and paste'' is by no means a valuable context if you try
to search for it. ;-) )

Maybe someone older or more inside has some ideas ...


meillo



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1)
  2015-11-10 20:26     ` [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) (was: PWB contributions) markus schnalke
@ 2015-11-11  0:16       ` Random832
  2015-11-11 12:23         ` markus schnalke
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Random832 @ 2015-11-11  0:16 UTC (permalink / raw)


markus schnalke <meillo at marmaro.de> writes:
> [2015-11-09 08:58] Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> things like "cut" and "paste", whose exact provenance
>> I can't recall.
>
> Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to share my portrait of
> cut(1) with you. (I sent some questions to this list, a few
> months ago, remember?) Now, here it is:
>
> 	http://marmaro.de/docs/freiesmagazin/cut/cut.en.pdf

Did you happen to find out what GWRL stands for, in the the comments at
the top of early versions of cut.c and paste.c?

/* cut : cut and paste columns of a table (projection of a relation) (GWRL) */
/* Release 1.5; handles single backspaces as produced by nroff    */
/* paste: concatenate corresponding lines of each file in parallel. Release 1.4 (GWRL) */
/*        (-s option: serial concatenation like old (127's) paste command */

For that matter, what's the "old (127's) paste command" it refers to?




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-01-15  8:02 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-01-15  4:54 [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) Brian Walden
2020-01-15  8:02 ` markus schnalke
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2015-11-11 12:41 Norman Wilson
2015-11-09  1:39 [TUHS] PWB contributions Doug McIlroy
2015-11-09  2:12 ` Clement T. Cole
2015-11-09 13:58   ` Doug McIlroy
2015-11-10 20:26     ` [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) (was: PWB contributions) markus schnalke
2015-11-11  0:16       ` [TUHS] A portrait of cut(1) Random832
2015-11-11 12:23         ` markus schnalke

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