From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5B62691E for ; Mon, 13 May 2024 07:24:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90FFF43688; Mon, 13 May 2024 15:23:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from marmaro.de (marmaro.de [176.28.23.198]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2D243685 for ; Mon, 13 May 2024 15:23:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: by marmaro.de (masqmail 0.3.6-dev, from userid 1000) id 1s6OA7-1nI-00 for ; Mon, 13 May 2024 07:23:47 +0200 To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-reply-to: References: <20240511213532.GB8330@mit.edu> User-Agent: meillo's mail handler (mmh) X-License: CC0 (http://marmaro.de/rights) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-ID: <6899.1715577827.1@marmaro.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 13 May 2024 07:23:47 +0200 From: markus schnalke Message-ID: <1s6OA7-1nI-00@marmaro.de> Message-ID-Hash: VNRITL6QJ72LVHU4UT6PTIWSMSNGIBRF X-Message-ID-Hash: VNRITL6QJ72LVHU4UT6PTIWSMSNGIBRF X-MailFrom: meillo@marmaro.de X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [COFF] Re: On Bloat and the Idea of Small Specialized Tools List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hoi. > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:35=E2=80=AFPM Theodore Ts'o wro= te: > = > I bet most of the young'uns would not be trying to do this as a shell > script, but using the Cloud SDK with perl or python or Go, which is > *way* more bloaty than using /bin/sh. > = > So while some of us old farts might be bemoaning the death of the Uni= x > philosophy, perhaps part of the reality is that the Unix philosophy > were ideal for a simpler time, but might not be as good of a fit > today It depends on what the Unix philosophy is seen to be. If it is solving problems by reading text from standard in and printing to standard out, then that might not be suitable anymore for many of today's problems. But if it is prefering plain text to binary, perfering simple solutions to complex ones, increasing the number of operations one can perform by combining small generic parts, =2E.. all because of good reasons ... Focussing on simplicity, clarity, generality ... Omitting needless words! ... All this still holds true, no matter if applied as shell scripts or within the design of a new programming language or a programming interface. It's not so much about the tools we use -- these should be suited for the times you live in and the problems you have to solve -- but it's more about how you look at them and how you look at the problems and what ideas for solutions you can imagine in your mind. Here, Unix provides a continuing inspiration. Only, like with every old book: when we read it today, we have to read it within the background of the times back then and transfer its message to today's times. The older the book, the more transfer work has to be done, the more knowledgable the then younger and more distant readers have to be, to really understand it. Thus, in my oppinion, the Unix philosophy remains a good and very relevant fit today, although not all of its applications from back then still are. meillo