* [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
@ 2000-10-09 13:39 Martijn van Buul
0 siblings, 0 replies; 2+ messages in thread
From: Martijn van Buul @ 2000-10-09 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
Ahoy!
I've about given up hope to create a 2.11 boottape myself[1], so I'm wondering
what to do next. I have this MicroPDP, with a DELQA network card, a PC
5.25" diskdrive shoe-horned into working as RX33 and a TK50 tape drive.
If it helps: I've managed to get Kermit running on the PDP, but I haven't
figured out if it is possible to "kermit" to the tapedrive directly. Probably
not.
Any hints?
Kind regards,
Martijn.
[1] My hopes have vaporized into thin air by two "not so overly bright"
persons. One of them decided that the TKZ-50 drive we (the local
user group) had should be split into controllerboard and actual
drive (and stored seperately), the other one didn't recognize
the TKZ50 controller, couldn't figure out what it was used for, and
threw it away... Some people deserve to be shot.
--
Martijn van Buul - Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt@Update.UU.SE>
To: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
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On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Martijn van Buul wrote:
> Ahoy!
>
> I've about given up hope to create a 2.11 boottape myself[1], so I'm wondering
> what to do next. I have this MicroPDP, with a DELQA network card, a PC
> 5.25" diskdrive shoe-horned into working as RX33 and a TK50 tape drive.
> If it helps: I've managed to get Kermit running on the PDP, but I haven't
> figured out if it is possible to "kermit" to the tapedrive directly. Probably
> not.
>
> Any hints?
Perhaps you should start by telling what you have running on the PDP-11
right now? Both software and hardware wise.
> [1] My hopes have vaporized into thin air by two "not so overly bright"
> persons. One of them decided that the TKZ-50 drive we (the local
> user group) had should be split into controllerboard and actual
> drive (and stored seperately), the other one didn't recognize
> the TKZ50 controller, couldn't figure out what it was used for, and
> threw it away... Some people deserve to be shot.
Wow. Impressive stupidity!
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:36:03 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:36:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200010100436.VAA01412 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: pino at dohd.org, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
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Greetings -
> From: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
> I've about given up hope to create a 2.11 boottape myself[1], so I'm wondering
> what to do next. I have this MicroPDP, with a DELQA network card, a PC
It is an 11/53 or better (73, 83, 93)? There were numerous "MicroPDP"
systems made but some of them were 11/23 or 23+ and those will not
run 2.11BSD
> 5.25" diskdrive shoe-horned into working as RX33 and a TK50 tape drive.
> If it helps: I've managed to get Kermit running on the PDP, but I haven't
> figured out if it is possible to "kermit" to the tapedrive directly. Probably
> not.
What OS did you manage to get Kermit running under? I do not believe
Kermit itself can handle the multiple block sizes used when writing
the files that make up the "boot tape". Do you have any development
facilities on the currently running system? If so then it might be
possible to write a program to create a tape from the files brought
over via kermit.
> Any hints?
First shoot the individuals mentioned in [1]? ;)
If you've a PC with a 5.25" drive and the ability to do image copies
to it ('dd' on a *BSD* or Linux system) that might be one way to
get 2.11 over to the MicroPDP. A single RX33 can easily hold the
standalone programs (boot, disklabel, restore, mkfs, icheck) and
it only takes 3 or 4 RX33 disks to hold a root filesystem dump.
The bad part is that the GENERIC kernel lacks networking due to
space contraints. Someone would have to create a custom kernel+
networking root filesystem and create 3 or 4 RX33 images to be dd'd
out to floppies. Then, once a networking based root filesystem
was loaded it should be possible to get pull the remaining data
over the network with a "rsh ... | tar ..." command.
Much depends on the ability to create floppy disks from images on a PC
that can be read on the RX33 which the PDP-11 has. If that works
then the rest will be timeconsuming (and the install instructions
will of course be heavily modified ;)) but at least possible.
Steven Schultz
sms at moe.2bsd.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
* [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
[not found] <200010100436.VAA01412@moe.2bsd.com>
@ 2000-10-10 18:36 ` Martijn van Buul
0 siblings, 0 replies; 2+ messages in thread
From: Martijn van Buul @ 2000-10-10 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
*whoops*.
I've been mailing personal replies, instead of replies to the list. Too much
relying on procmail, I suppose.
Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> It is an 11/53 or better (73, 83, 93)? There were numerous "MicroPDP"
> systems made but some of them were 11/23 or 23+ and those will not
> run 2.11BSD
It's a 11/53+ (aka: 1.5 MB RAM), which *should* be able to run 2.11BSD.
> What OS did you manage to get Kermit running under?
Micro/RSX
> I do not believe Kermit itself can handle the multiple block sizes used
> when writing the files that make up the "boot tape". Do you have any
> development facilities on the currently running system? If so then it
> might be possible to write a program to create a tape from the files
> brought over via kermit.
There is a Macro-assembler, and reportedly a PASCAL compiler. However, my
Micro/RSX skills (let alone -programming skills) should be considered
rudimentary - the only resource I have is the on-line helpfile (which isn't
very clear every now and then).
> If you've a PC with a 5.25" drive and the ability to do image copies
> to it ('dd' on a *BSD* or Linux system) that might be one way to
> get 2.11 over to the MicroPDP. A single RX33 can easily hold the
> standalone programs (boot, disklabel, restore, mkfs, icheck) and
> it only takes 3 or 4 RX33 disks to hold a root filesystem dump.
The "RX33" is working (that's how I was able to low-level format two
MFM disks, and how I got Kermit running). And yes, I have a Minix-VMD box
with a 5.25" HD drive.
For the sake of completeness, I'll include the currently available
hardware:
KJD11-D/S (processor), DZQ11, TK50, RQDX3 with one RD32A, a third-party
21MB MFM disk (ST225, RD33? 31? Something like that), a second 21MB
MFM disk standing by (A microscribe of some sort), a 5.25" PC floppy
drive shoe-horned into a RX33, and a DELQA card.
(Well, that's what I have installed right now. I do have some other cards,
including a DRV11-J "Hi-density parallell line unit" and some strange
VG-Electronics cards (which they claim are specific to surface analysis))
And a spare TK50 mechanic..
--
Martijn van Buul - Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.
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From: Wilko Bulte <wkb@freebie.demon.nl>
To: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
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On Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 03:39:36PM +0200, Martijn van Buul wrote:
> I've about given up hope to create a 2.11 boottape myself[1], so I'm wondering
> what to do next. I have this MicroPDP, with a DELQA network card, a PC
> 5.25" diskdrive shoe-horned into working as RX33 and a TK50 tape drive.
> If it helps: I've managed to get Kermit running on the PDP, but I haven't
> figured out if it is possible to "kermit" to the tapedrive directly. Probably
> not.
>
> Any hints?
Well... you can borrow one of my TK50s with 2.11 on it ;-)
--
Wilko Bulte
wilko at freebsd.org Arnhem, the Netherlands
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Subject: Re: [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
In-Reply-To: <20001009153936.A18313 at mud.stack.nl> from Martijn van Buul at "Oct
9, 2000 03:39:36 pm"
From: Mark Green <mark@cs.ualberta.ca>
To: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:30:24 -0600 (MDT)
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> Ahoy!
>
> I've about given up hope to create a 2.11 boottape myself[1], so I'm wondering
> what to do next. I have this MicroPDP, with a DELQA network card, a PC
> 5.25" diskdrive shoe-horned into working as RX33 and a TK50 tape drive.
> If it helps: I've managed to get Kermit running on the PDP, but I haven't
> figured out if it is possible to "kermit" to the tapedrive directly. Probably
> not.
>
> Any hints?
If you need a TK50 with 2.11 on it I could produce one for you (provided
that you have jumped through all the license hoops). The only sticky
point might be shipping, where are you located? I'm travelling a lot
this month, so it may take a week or so to get it done.
--
Dr. Mark Green mark at cs.ualberta.ca
McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584
Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX)
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
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To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD?
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Hi -
> From: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
> *whoops*.
>
> I've been mailing personal replies, instead of replies to the list. Too much
> relying on procmail, I suppose.
;)
> It's a 11/53+ (aka: 1.5 MB RAM), which *should* be able to run 2.11BSD.
Indeed it should be able to. I personally have not done so but the
processor/mmu meet all the criteria and 1.5MB is perfect.
> The "RX33" is working (that's how I was able to low-level format two
I have a "RX33" on my 11/73 so I can create a boot disk and the
root filesystem dump (split over 3 or 4 1.2MB disk images).
> For the sake of completeness, I'll include the currently available
> hardware:
Ah, thanks! That answers some other questions I was going to ask ;)
> KJD11-D/S (processor), DZQ11, TK50, RQDX3 with one RD32A, a third-party
> 21MB MFM disk (ST225, RD33? 31? Something like that), a second 21MB
> MFM disk standing by (A microscribe of some sort), a 5.25" PC floppy
> drive shoe-horned into a RX33, and a DELQA card.
It is going to take some creative symlink and mount point work to
fit 2.11 into 20MB disks - the system really expects to have ~80MB
at least for /usr. An RD54 at 159MB is more than enough but a RD53
paired with a couple RD32/3 would be adequate.
Steven Schultz
sms at to.gd-es.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
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2000-10-09 13:39 [pups] How to arrange bootable media for 2.11BSD? Martijn van Buul
[not found] <200010100436.VAA01412@moe.2bsd.com>
2000-10-10 18:36 ` Martijn van Buul
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