[pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?

[rdkeys@unity.ncsu.edu (rdkeys@unity.ncsu.edu)]

> 	It is going to take some creative symlink and mount point work to
> 	fit 2.11 into 20MB disks - the system really expects to have ~80MB
> 	at least for /usr.   An RD54 at 159MB is more than enough but a RD53
> 	paired with a couple RD32/3 would be adequate.
> 
> 	Steven Schultz
> 	sms at to.gd-es.com

Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort
(like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but
maybe something will surface).  Anyway... for the sake of discussion,
and general dumpster diving knowledge....

1.  What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
    work on a PDP-11?

2.  Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?).

I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in MooU surplus,
as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates.  IF I can
find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info
to have handy, whilst dumpster diving.  At a buck or two a chassis,
it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save.

I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem
to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.

Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use?

Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?

I vaguely remember some notes on some of this somewhere.  Any urls
or pointers thereto would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bob Keys
rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu

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Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
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Bob Keys wrote:

>1.  What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
>    work on a PDP-11?

Perhaps the number one most frequently asked question on this list :-).
See

 http://ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/third-party-disks.txt

for Terry Kennedy's excellent collection of DECUServe articles with lots
of juicy details about using non-DEC MFM drives and floppy drives on DEC
RQDXn controllers.

Tim.

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To: rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu
cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
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> 
> 1.  What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
>     work on a PDP-11?

Many, any that are similar to ST225(RD31) and ST251(RD32) or have the same
CHS as RD52 (Quantum D540), MIcropolus 1325(rd53) or Maxtor2190(rd54).
Those disks were DEC baged but not DEC made and are findable.  there are
many similar out there as well.
 
> 2.  Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?).

Yes if you have a SCSI card that is MSCP compatable.  THese are scarce
 as many are still in service or quickly picked up.

> I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in MooU surplus,
> as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates.  IF I can
> find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info
> to have handy, whilst dumpster diving.  At a buck or two a chassis,
> it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save.

There is a good chance they are useable depending on the controller 
in your DEC hardware.

> I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem
> to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.

Someone else will confirm but 2.11 handles MSCP so that means RQDX
controllers for MFM or many of the SCSI controlers that speak MSCP.

> Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use?

See above list.


> Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?

Yes, with the right controller, some caveats.

Hopefully you will get more detailes from others.

Allison

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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
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Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
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Hi Bob -

> From: rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu
> Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort
> (like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but

	Interesting.   I wouldn't have thought an 11/73 or similar would
	be too hard to find.

> 1.  What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
>     work on a PDP-11?

	Tim has already jumped in with a pointer or two.

> 2.  Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?).

	Oh yes!   But you need to have a Qbus SCSI<->MSCP controller.  They
	are easy to _find_ but quite *expensive*.   Not as expensive as
	they were when I shelled out US$1500 for a new Emulex UC08 (and that
	with a good discount - the sales person was sympathetic to my
	explanation this was for a 'hobby').    Used CMD, Emulex or Dilog
	controllers will run around $500-900.

	Once you have gotten over the sticker/exchequer shock the upside
	is that you can use about many SCSI disk or tape drives that other
	folks are tossing otu because they're too small.   The older ~300MB
	and 1GB disks that are not useful on modern systems are great in
	a PDP-11 environment.    Uh, don't bother putting a 73GB Cheetah
	on an 11 ;)

	One place that lists CMD and Emulex controllers is:

		http://www.ficompinc.com

> I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem
> to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.
> 
> Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use?

	At one time I had a uVax-II with a Dilog DQ696 (I think that was 
	the model number) that had a couple ESDI drives on it - a ~300MB
	Miniscribe disk and a couple Maxtor RD53 sized drives.

> Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?

	Definitely.    Emulex QD33 and QD35 adaptors (in addition to the
	Dilog DQ696) ring a bell as far as non-SCSI disks go.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com