From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: rdkeys@unity.ncsu.edu (rdkeys@unity.ncsu.edu) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use? In-Reply-To: <200010110012.RAA13052@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Oct 10, 2000 05:12:18 PM Message-ID: <200010111429.KAA23987@uni04du.unity.ncsu.edu> > It is going to take some creative symlink and mount point work to > fit 2.11 into 20MB disks - the system really expects to have ~80MB > at least for /usr. An RD54 at 159MB is more than enough but a RD53 > paired with a couple RD32/3 would be adequate. > > Steven Schultz > sms at to.gd-es.com Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort (like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but maybe something will surface). Anyway... for the sake of discussion, and general dumpster diving knowledge.... 1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to work on a PDP-11? 2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?). I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in MooU surplus, as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates. IF I can find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info to have handy, whilst dumpster diving. At a buck or two a chassis, it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save. I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types. Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use? Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used? I vaguely remember some notes on some of this somewhere. Any urls or pointers thereto would be appreciated. Thanks Bob Keys rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA99702 for pups-liszt; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:17:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA99698 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:17:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA91114 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:18:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from enterprise.trailing-edge.com (enterprise.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA98987 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:04:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA at enterprise.trailing-edge.com) Received: by enterprise.trailing-edge.com for PUPS at MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:03:42 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:03:42 -0400 From: SHOPPA@trailing-edge.com To: PUPS at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-Id: <001011200342.202026f0 at trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use? Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bob Keys wrote: >1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to > work on a PDP-11? Perhaps the number one most frequently asked question on this list :-). See http://ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/third-party-disks.txt for Terry Kennedy's excellent collection of DECUServe articles with lots of juicy details about using non-DEC MFM drives and floppy drives on DEC RQDXn controllers. Tim. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA99851 for pups-liszt; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:39:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA99847 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:39:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA91268 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:40:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from world.std.com (allisonp at world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA99825 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:34:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from allisonp at world.std.com) From: allisonp@world.std.com Received: from localhost (allisonp at localhost) by world.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA18625; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:33:35 -0400 (EDT) To: rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu cc: "Steven M. Schultz" , pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use? In-Reply-To: <200010111429.KAA23987 at uni04du.unity.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > 1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to > work on a PDP-11? Many, any that are similar to ST225(RD31) and ST251(RD32) or have the same CHS as RD52 (Quantum D540), MIcropolus 1325(rd53) or Maxtor2190(rd54). Those disks were DEC baged but not DEC made and are findable. there are many similar out there as well. > 2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?). Yes if you have a SCSI card that is MSCP compatable. THese are scarce as many are still in service or quickly picked up. > I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in MooU surplus, > as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates. IF I can > find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info > to have handy, whilst dumpster diving. At a buck or two a chassis, > it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save. There is a good chance they are useable depending on the controller in your DEC hardware. > I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem > to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types. Someone else will confirm but 2.11 handles MSCP so that means RQDX controllers for MFM or many of the SCSI controlers that speak MSCP. > Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use? See above list. > Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used? Yes, with the right controller, some caveats. Hopefully you will get more detailes from others. Allison Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00755 for pups-liszt; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:12:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00751 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:12:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt at localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA91573 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:13:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0 at MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA99983 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:08:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26966 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:07:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200010120307.UAA26966 at moe.2bsd.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use? Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi Bob - > From: rdkeys at unity.ncsu.edu > Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort > (like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but Interesting. I wouldn't have thought an 11/73 or similar would be too hard to find. > 1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to > work on a PDP-11? Tim has already jumped in with a pointer or two. > 2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?). Oh yes! But you need to have a Qbus SCSI<->MSCP controller. They are easy to _find_ but quite *expensive*. Not as expensive as they were when I shelled out US$1500 for a new Emulex UC08 (and that with a good discount - the sales person was sympathetic to my explanation this was for a 'hobby'). Used CMD, Emulex or Dilog controllers will run around $500-900. Once you have gotten over the sticker/exchequer shock the upside is that you can use about many SCSI disk or tape drives that other folks are tossing otu because they're too small. The older ~300MB and 1GB disks that are not useful on modern systems are great in a PDP-11 environment. Uh, don't bother putting a 73GB Cheetah on an 11 ;) One place that lists CMD and Emulex controllers is: http://www.ficompinc.com > I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem > to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types. > > Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use? At one time I had a uVax-II with a Dilog DQ696 (I think that was the model number) that had a couple ESDI drives on it - a ~300MB Miniscribe disk and a couple Maxtor RD53 sized drives. > Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used? Definitely. Emulex QD33 and QD35 adaptors (in addition to the Dilog DQ696) ring a bell as far as non-SCSI disks go. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com