* [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
[not found] <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk>
@ 2001-01-29 21:37 ` Warren Toomey
0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey @ 2001-01-29 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
>
> Robin
I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.
If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?
Warren
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Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
From: norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500
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I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.
On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.
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From: Ian King <iking@microsoft.com>
To: "'norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca'" <norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca>,
pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800
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That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the
pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input
silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has
to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk
-----Original Message-----
From: norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.
On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.
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From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001 at yahoo.com>
Cc: freebsd-doc at freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation
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References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail at web9007.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote:
> hello sir/madam,
> i want to know the information about
> the bsd 4.3 for vax machines .
> let u provide me documentation regarding this topic.
> iam waiting for your earliest reply.
The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with
Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
can get it for the Vax.
Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
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To: grog at lemis.com, n_shankar_2001 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation
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Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
> Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
> can get it for the Vax.
For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
--
Michael Sokolov
Public Service Agent
International Engineering and Science Task Force
1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409
FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP)
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver)
In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982 at psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm"
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST)
CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
>
> Robin
Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html
for details.
At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and
just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console
line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image:
Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $
Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts
Tape records are:
0 tinyboot
1 copy
2 root.img
Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open
E11>show cpu
Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A
NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET,
NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B,
NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD,
NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM,
NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP
Host: Cyrix 486, NPX
E11>g 70000
Opened tinyboot
rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF
40tinyboot from virtual tape server
Load tape record: 1
Opened copy
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy
Infile: vt(0,0,2)
Outfile: rk(0,0,0)
Opened root.img
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
100K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who
wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST)
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Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.
The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:
I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some
Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-)
I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.
He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.
Many thanks all!
Warren
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From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin@bigfoot.com>
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Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
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Hi,
I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the
Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows:
set cpu 22b
set cpu 2048K
at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown
boot rp
While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
- 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
- a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
The makefile is:
date2: date2.c
cc -o date2 -c date2.c
- 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way
Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet
as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more
memory?
Some other info:
# uname -a
2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET
1998
root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11
By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to
set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the
updated date2.c program.
Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed
that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11!
Cheers,
Richard
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To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin@ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY at ruffnready.co.uk>
<200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>In article by Robin Birch:
>> Warren,
>> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
>> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You
>> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
>> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be
>> universal across all PDP11s.
>>
>> Robin
>
>I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
>I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.
>
>If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
>line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
>to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?
>
> Warren
Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as
once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC
system had installed.
The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to
me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that
is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single
driver.
Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
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From: Ian King <iking@microsoft.com>
To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
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In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
(I even have some original shipping boxes.)
BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my
11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can
use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a
disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of
Warren's VTServer program.
TIA -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.
The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:
I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some
Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-)
I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.
He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.
Many thanks all!
Warren
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Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99 at bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30,
2001 07:55:19 am"
From: Mark Green <mark@cs.ualberta.ca>
To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin at bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST)
CC: PUPS List <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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>
> While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
>
> - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
>
> - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
> The makefile is:
>
> date2: date2.c
> cc -o date2 -c date2.c
Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
and not produce an executable.
>
> - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way
>
--
Dr. Mark Green mark at cs.ualberta.ca
McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584
Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX)
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283 at chiton.ucsd.edu>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
carl
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
{decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
>
> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
>
>
> He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> onto his real disk.
>
> Many thanks all!
>
> Warren
>
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500
From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com>
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To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <200101301820.KAA24283 at chiton.ucsd.edu>
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I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.
-- Ken
Carl Lowenstein wrote:
>
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
>
> carl
>
> carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
> {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
> clowenstein at ucsd.edu
>
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> > Warren
> >
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
@ 2001-01-29 17:08 Ian King
0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Ian King @ 2001-01-29 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it
to you.
-- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Hi all,
I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.
I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.
My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?
I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.
Thanks all,
Warren
struct vtdevice {
int rcsr,rbuf;
int tcsr,tbuf;
};
#define NVT 2
struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
(struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
(struct vtdevice *)0,
(struct vtdevice *)-1
};
/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{
register c;
VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
lotim--;
if (lotim==0) hitim--;
if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
}
c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}
vtputc(c)
register c;
{
register s;
while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283 at chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at
"Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am"
To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
>
> carl
Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
That's the problem.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: Ian King <iking@microsoft.com>
To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>,
Carl Lowenstein
<cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800
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Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the
"Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at
loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
to spray it onto a disk. <sigh>
Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Carl Lowenstein
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.
-- Ken
Carl Lowenstein wrote:
>
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
>
> carl
>
> carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
> {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
> clowenstein at ucsd.edu
>
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both
ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> > Warren
> >
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From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com>
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CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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Hi Ian,
Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.
Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The
images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.
In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)
Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...
Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...
Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think
it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^)
Cheers,
-- Ken
Ian King wrote:
>
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
>
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
> to spray it onto a disk. <sigh>
>
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <200101302330.PAA29420 at chiton.ucsd.edu>
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
> >
> > carl
>
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
>
> Cheers,
> Warren
Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately.
Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.
The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.
I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must
be the place where such things happen.
I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.
carl
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000
From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin@bigfoot.com>
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To: Mark Green <mark at cs.ualberta.ca>
Cc: PUPS List <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182 at scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
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Mark Green wrote:
>
> >
> > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> >
> > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> >
> > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
> > The makefile is:
> >
> > date2: date2.c
> > cc -o date2 -c date2.c
> Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
> and not produce an executable.
Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one.
Thanks
Richard
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.scranton.edu>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
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On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
> Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
>
> Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
>
I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command
that is not Y2K ready.
First: Set the date to 9912312359
Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000.
Third: Set the date to 12312359
Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001.
Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time.
Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU
date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD.
All the best.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A at red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
From: Ian King <iking@microsoft.com>
To: "'Carl Lowenstein'" <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>, wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800
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Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on
an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in
emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone
say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"?
If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to
boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some
to be the best).
And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks.
> >
> > carl
>
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
>
> Cheers,
> Warren
Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately.
Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.
The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.
I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must
be the place where such things happen.
I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.
carl
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From: Ian King <iking@microsoft.com>
To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800
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Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size
restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org. I would
greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the
year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools
won't accept the "01" year. :-)
Cheers -- isk
PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them.
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
To: Ian King
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Hi Ian,
Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.
Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The
images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.
In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)
Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...
Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...
Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think
it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^)
Cheers,
-- Ken
Ian King wrote:
>
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff
at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
>
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600
baud)
> to spray it onto a disk. <sigh>
>
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500
From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com>
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To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13 at red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
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Ian King wrote:
>
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)
So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've
run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently
damaged:
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz:
invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz:
invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz:
invalid compressed data--crc error
I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc.
I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of
the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file).
I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I
had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^)
-- Ken
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:09 -0500
From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com>
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To: Bill Gunshannon <bill at cs.scranton.edu>
CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000 at triangle.cs.uofs.edu>
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Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:
>
> > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
> >
> > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> > maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
>
> I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
> Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
> install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command
> that is not Y2K ready.
No, V6 predates Ultrix-11 by just a bit I believe.
The date setting format on V6 appears to be '1231245999', that is
two digits for: month, day, hour, minute, year. A trailing 'p' means
the hours are 12 based (and it is PM), otherwise 24 based.
I can confirm as I expected that setting 0131110301 puts me at 1970 B^)
No big deal. I can see in the 'date' source what it is doing...
Thanks for the 'put it into the year 2001' method!
-- Ken
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
@ 2001-01-29 1:24 Warren Toomey
0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey @ 2001-01-29 1:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi all,
I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.
I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.
My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?
I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.
Thanks all,
Warren
struct vtdevice {
int rcsr,rbuf;
int tcsr,tbuf;
};
#define NVT 2
struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
(struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
(struct vtdevice *)0,
(struct vtdevice *)-1
};
/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{
register c;
VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
lotim--;
if (lotim==0) hitim--;
if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
}
c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}
vtputc(c)
register c;
{
register s;
while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin@ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Warren,
Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You
could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be
universal across all PDP11s.
Robin
In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>Hi all,
> I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
>with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
>install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
>
>At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
>so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
>http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
>unless you have a PDP-11/45.
>
>I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
>find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
>kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.
>
>My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
>equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?
>
>I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
>responding.
>
>Thanks all,
> Warren
>
>
>struct vtdevice {
> int rcsr,rbuf;
> int tcsr,tbuf;
>};
>
>#define NVT 2
>struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
> (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
> (struct vtdevice *)0,
> (struct vtdevice *)-1
>};
>
>/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
>char vtgetc()
>{
> register c;
>
> VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
>
> while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
> lotim--;
> if (lotim==0) hitim--;
> if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
> }
> c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
>}
>
>vtputc(c)
>register c;
>{
> register s;
>
> while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
> s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
> VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
>}
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
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2001-01-29 21:37 ` [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Warren Toomey
2001-01-29 17:08 Ian King
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2001-01-29 1:24 Warren Toomey
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