[pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

[pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

[Carl Lowenstein]

> From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sat Feb 17 18:54 PST 2001
> X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs
> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:43:51 -0500 (EST)
> From: Bill Gunshannon <bill at cs.scranton.edu>
> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but
> I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are
> 4 simple Floating Point Instructions.  FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV.
> The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions.  I have never
> had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?)
> so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book
> is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up.

You're missing something.  The FADD FSUB FMUL FDIV was first used in
the 11/40 FIS (optional) floating-point instruction set.  It was later
implemented as an optional chip add-on for the LSI-11 and LSI-11/2.
Single-precision only, and stack oriented.

The 11/45 Floating-point Processor had about 30 instructions and had both
single-precision and double-precision modes, and a bunch of registers.
Typical instruction mnemonics include ADDF SUBF MULF DIVF MODF and
the same with last character changed to D for Double.

The LSI-11/23 optional FP chip followed the 11/45 FPP style.  The 11/73
CPU chip implemented the 11/45 FPP in microcode, and the 11/73 FPP
add-on implemented the 11/45 FPP in much faster microcode.

    carl

[pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

[Bill Gunshannon]

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but
I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are
4 simple Floating Point Instructions.  FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV.
The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions.  I have never
had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?)
so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book
is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt@update.uu.se>
To: Bill Gunshannon <bill at cs.scranton.edu>
cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?
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On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> 
> Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but
> I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are
> 4 simple Floating Point Instructions.  FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV.

No, that's the FIS instructions. They are only available on the 11/35,
11/40, LSI-11 and perhaps some other model that I don't remember.

The J11 has the F11 in microcode. The FP11 for the J11 is an accelerator.

> The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions.  I have never
> had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?)
> so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book
> is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up.

If someone wants the full F11 instruction set, I think it's available on
the net. Anyhow, yes, your 11/93 have the F11 instruction set. I also
think that the 11/93 cpu always have the accelerator option.
(Hmmm, I'd like to get my hands on an 11/93 CPU, anyone have an extra? :-)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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Subject: Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?
To: bqt at update.uu.se
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On 17 Feb, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> It's faster. There is FP11 microcode in the J11, but it's really slow from
> what I gathered. The separate FP11 could be regarded more as an
> accelerator.
Ahhh, interesting to hear. 
I think this will be a nice machine. 11/73 with the FP accelerator, 4MB
RAM, DLV11-J, RQDX3 with RD54 (or later Dilog ESDI MSCP adapter with one
or two 300MB ESDI drives), TK50, DELQA all together in a BA23. So there
are only two things left: Boot (E)RPOM card and time to get 2.11BSD
installed. 
-- 



tschuess,
          Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz


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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:31:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.scranton.edu>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: [pups] board id help and another Ultrix-11 update
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I have finally found the time to play with my 11/93 (the bad news is
it is an un-recognizable CPU for the Ultrix-11 install tape, but we'll
cross that bridge later.)  Other than the usual compliment of MicroPDP
boards (Ethernet, RQDX3) this one has a board made by a company called
"Data Systems Design".  The Model appears to be an 808836-05 Rev.K.
It has a 26pin Berg connector in one corner for which I do not have a
cable.  Now the big question. Is there anyone here who knows what this
card is and in particular what the wiring of the Berg connector looks
like??  Why you ask??  Because with this card in the machine thinks it
has an RL01/RL02 controller and an RX02 controller.  If this is some
kind of disk controller, I would love to know what disks it hooks up to.
BUt with only a single 26 pin connector, I can't imagine what disks it
would use.  If anyone has seen one of these or especially if you have
documentation, I would love to hear about it.

Also, here is another Ultrix-11 update.  In order to comply with the
KISS principle, I have opted for a simple RL02 based system to do my
image dumps.  Hopefully, in the next day or two I will be sending a
tar file to Warren for the archive that will contain a pair of RL02
images that comprise a simple bootable system for the 11/23 and if
that works, I am going to also try to make a TS11 tape image of the
install tape so that people can opt for whatever configuration suits
their taste.  I will send something to the list when I get this far.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


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Bill,

The DSD card is likely for a DSD 880 system, which has one 8" floppy
and one (8"?) Winchester drive.  The combo emulates an RX02 and a
couple of RL01/RL02 drives.  The controller card is basically useless
unless you have the DSD chassis with the floppy, harddrive, and custom
electronics.  The DSD 880 is not uncommon, so you might be able to
find one around.

Dave 

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> 
> I have finally found the time to play with my 11/93 (the bad news is
> it is an un-recognizable CPU for the Ultrix-11 install tape, but we'll
> cross that bridge later.)  Other than the usual compliment of MicroPDP
> boards (Ethernet, RQDX3) this one has a board made by a company called
> "Data Systems Design".  The Model appears to be an 808836-05 Rev.K.
> It has a 26pin Berg connector in one corner for which I do not have a
> cable.  Now the big question. Is there anyone here who knows what this
> card is and in particular what the wiring of the Berg connector looks
> like??  Why you ask??  Because with this card in the machine thinks it
> has an RL01/RL02 controller and an RX02 controller.  If this is some
> kind of disk controller, I would love to know what disks it hooks up to.
> BUt with only a single 26 pin connector, I can't imagine what disks it
> would use.  If anyone has seen one of these or especially if you have
> documentation, I would love to hear about it.
> 
> Also, here is another Ultrix-11 update.  In order to comply with the
> KISS principle, I have opted for a simple RL02 based system to do my
> image dumps.  Hopefully, in the next day or two I will be sending a
> tar file to Warren for the archive that will contain a pair of RL02
> images that comprise a simple bootable system for the 11/23 and if
> that works, I am going to also try to make a TS11 tape image of the
> install tape so that people can opt for whatever configuration suits
> their taste.  I will send something to the list when I get this far.
> 
> bill
> 
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>