The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: bill@cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: [pups] The Software Tools Virtual Operating System
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:51:35 -0500 (EST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20011102113550.E48859-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3BE2C9AD.B4414B4C@oracle.com>

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Bill Mayhew wrote:

> > (don't ask me why, but the VOS was ported to Unix!!).
>
> That's easy to answer, recalling some of the burnt and frayed edges of the Good
> Old Days ;-)
>
> The question "what *is* UNIX?" was a popular *philosophical* question at the
> time, even among people who used UNIX and knew it well, because there were so
> many incompatible variants, even on the same hardware, that called themselves
> UNIX.

I would imagine the differences then were minor compared to today.  There
really were only two major variants.  And, because the underlying model of
Unix was also The Software Tools approach, the APIof the VOS, as far as it
went, was of a decidely Unix flavor.

>
> That problem was one of the drivers of the whole Software Tools movement, as I
> recall.  ST, including VOS, was viewed as a way of addressing the compatibility
> problem, regardless of whether the underlying "real" OS claimed to be UNIX,
> UNIX-compatible, UNIX-like, or none-of-the-above.

And this is one of the reasons why I am so interested in reviving the effort.
This need still exists, even among Unix systems, but when you bring none
Unix systems into the picture (yes, they still exist!!) the problem grows
exponentially.

So, let's look backwards a little.  Anybody here remember Eunice on VMS??
How about Primix on Primos??  These were obvious commercial attempts at
the STVOS.  Why did they fail??  Performance.  And a user community unwilling
to accept anything less than the best performance the hardware of the day
could deliver.  The same was true of the P-Machine approach.  While it
offered true binary compatability and portability of applications (anybody
here remember PCD Systems of Penn Yan, NY??) even the minor loss of machine
efficiency made people look at (frequently more expensive) alternatives.

But today, the average user has power to burn.  The Java VM is stting on
top of the world.  And efficiency doesn't even get mentioned in most CS
classrooms.  And there are other examples.  "The POSIX Shell".  CYGWin.
Even DII-COE smacks of it.

And anyway, some of the old ideas are just plain fun.  Why else do we all
spend our free time working with our PDP-11's??  :-)

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>




  reply	other threads:[~2001-11-02 16:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <3BE1DB0B.E7BBD39F@earthlink.net>
2001-11-02  1:53 ` Bill Gunshannon
2001-11-02 16:28   ` Bill Mayhew
2001-11-02 16:51     ` Bill Gunshannon [this message]
2001-11-01  2:15 SHOPPA
2001-11-01 20:25 ` Bill Gunshannon
2001-11-01 22:02   ` Warren Toomey
2001-11-01 22:37     ` Bill Gunshannon
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-11-01  0:34 SHOPPA
2001-11-01  1:50 ` Bill Gunshannon
2001-10-31 11:56 Bill Gunshannon
2001-10-31 20:04 ` Frank Mandarino
2001-10-31 20:20   ` Bill Gunshannon
2001-11-01  1:41     ` David C. Jenner

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20011102113550.E48859-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu \
    --to=bill@cs.scranton.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).