[TUHS] Porting Unix v6 to i386

[TUHS] Porting Unix v6 to i386

[Sven Dehmlow]

Hi,
The last few weeks I've thought a lot about porting Unix v6 to the 
PC. Here are my "results":

1. If you really want to do it, don't do it from scratch. Porting 
Unix 1:1 maybe the usual way but integrating your code step by step 
into another Unix or Unix-a-like operating system will surely become 
much easier as you can test the result in every stage of development. 
Another benefit is of course that with a little bit of luck you don't 
have to rewrite all the machine dependent stuff as it might already 
exist in the other os. If you want to do things this way ELKS (the 
Linux kernel subset for the 8088) might be a good candidate as it is 
very simple and by this very easy to understand. Also there is a big 
Linux/ELKS community which might help you with some problems.

2.Another question is if it is really necessary to port when so many 
good emulators for the PDP11 exist. Of course a ported Unix is faster 
than one running on a simulator but is fastness really so important 
in times where multi-processor machines exist that make your 1.5Ghz 
machine look like a fool? Also wouldn't a user who needs a 
professional fast Unix (or a-like) take the newest Linux or one of 
the BSDs instead of Unix v6? 
The main reason for porting is from my point of view to get access to 
the i86's hardware. But for reaching this aim a port isn't necessary. 
You can either develop the emulated machine further so that it has 
additional devices (and interupts, etc. for them) or you can try to 
give the os on the emulated machine direct access to the real 
machine. This may sound a little bit strange and unusual but will 
save much code in the emulator as you don't have to code for each 
device twice (one time in the emulator and one time in the os). Of 
course the os you're running your emulator on must give you the 
chance to get direct access to the real hardware, but I found a DOS 
port from Bob Supniks J-11 emulator so that is not a real problem.
Currently I'm working on the latter idea (on the emulator which gives 
you direct access to the hardware), but in fact I haven't written a 
line of code yet as I'm still searching for the best way to integrate 
the interesting parts of PC's memory into PDP11's memory. The idea is 
to put the interesting parts of PC's memory behind PDP11's memory and 
to change some lines in Unix that for example malloc doesn't get the 
idea to give this pieces of memory away to user programs. Putting the 
PC's memory before the memory space of the PDP11 would as far as I 
can see make more changes especially in the code relevant for booting 
necessary. Other things like for example PC's interupts will surely 
make much less trouble.

Suggestions, ideas, opinions, etc. are very welcome. If someone feels 
the urge to help me with this project it would be very kind if he 
would let me know ;-)

BTW: if someone has patches to the v6 or ported programs it would be 
very kind if he would send them to me. If I get enough stuff I'll 
make something like a new Unix v6 distribution.

Sven

[TUHS] Porting Unix v6 to i386

[Jonathan Naylor]

Hi Sven

I can't help feel that you've missed the point of wanting to port UNIX 
edition 6 or 7 to the PC. Its a challenge, nothing more, nothing less. I have 
run both editions on Bob Supniks excellent emulator (now with PDP-10 support 
BTW) and they're great, but it'd be ultra cool to boot it directly on a PC.

I would guess that VMWare would be a great host, or maybe its open source 
equivalents (Plex86 or Bochs) so that you could save the reboot cycles. I 
would also try porting V7 instead of V6, at least initially. With so much 
open source code out there, it'd be a relatively simple task to find C code 
for IDE disc access and such like. I would even suggest getting older Linux 
code from the 2.0.x days as its likely to be a little less complex, while 
still being stable.

Just my 0.02 EURO.

Jonathan

[TUHS] Porting Unix v6 to i386

[Sven Dehmlow]

On Monday 28 January 2002 22:03, Jonathan Naylor wrote:
> Hi Sven
>
> I can't help feel that you've missed the point of wanting to port
> UNIX edition 6 or 7 to the PC. Its a challenge, nothing more,
> nothing less. I have run both editions on Bob Supniks excellent
> emulator (now with PDP-10 support BTW) and they're great, but it'd
> be ultra cool to boot it directly on a PC.

I can't agree more, it would even be more than ultra cool to be able 
to boot Unix 6th Edition directly on your PC.
But I can't make a complete (and everything else would be senseless) 
port on my own as this would from my point of view mean to much work 
for a single individual. I try to do as much as I can but if you want 
to get a real port we've to found an open source project for reaching 
this aim.

>
> I would guess that VMWare would be a great host, or maybe its open
> source equivalents (Plex86 or Bochs) so that you could save the
> reboot cycles. I would also try porting V7 instead of V6, at least
> initially. With so much open source code out there, it'd be a
> relatively simple task to find C code for IDE disc access and such
> like. I would even suggest getting older Linux code from the 2.0.x
> days as its likely to be a little less complex, while still being
> stable.

Well, this are details. The question to be answered before we can 
start thinking about them is this one above: Do we start an open 
source project for porting Unix or not?

>
> Just my 0.02 EURO.

You should notice that it is dangerous to talk about the EURO with 
me. I always become very aggressive... ;-)

>
> Jonathan

Sven

[TUHS] Porting Unix v6 to i386

[M. Warner Losh]

In message: <02012822034503.20290 at g4klx>
            Jonathan Naylor <jonathan.naylor at ggaweb.ch> writes:
: I would guess that VMWare would be a great host, or maybe its open source 
: equivalents (Plex86 or Bochs) so that you could save the reboot cycles. I 
: would also try porting V7 instead of V6, at least initially. With so much 
: open source code out there, it'd be a relatively simple task to find C code 
: for IDE disc access and such like. I would even suggest getting older Linux 
: code from the 2.0.x days as its likely to be a little less complex, while 
: still being stable.

There is a stripped down Linux port called Elks to the x86 right now.
It seems to work OK for these old 8088 machines (and newer ones in the
psion).  But I'm still none-the-less drawn towards a v7 port :-)...

Warner