[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks (fwd)

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks (fwd)

[Warren Toomey]

----- Forwarded message from Ian Molton -----

From spyro at f2s.com Tue Oct  1 09:02:24 2002
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 00:15:35 +0100
From: Ian Molton <spyro@f2s.com>
To: wkt at tuhs.org
Subject: Re: Making boot disks

On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:37:35 +1000 (EST)
Warren Toomey <wkt at minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:

> I'll pass this to the mailing list to see if others can help you.
> I'd say that Linux is unlikely to construct the correct filesystem
> type. There are severl UFS variants, and you'd need to know the exact
> layout details to be sure that Linux (or something else) could create
> the boot disks.

Thanks.

I found some ufs code in the HURD source, and VERY crudely hacked it. It
creates filesystems that linux can mount, but it crashed trying to write
big files to it (doh!)

any advice from the list would be appreciated :)

----- End of forwarded message from Ian Molton -----

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Warren Toomey]

In article by Ian Molton:
> Hi.
> 
> Dunno if you can help me ont this...
> 
> I have an unusual UNIX derived OS called RISCiX, but I cant install it
> because I have no bootdisks.
> 
> I /do/ have scripts to make them, and the kernel + OS files, though.
> 
> I think the filesystem was UFS.
> 
> I can use my Linux box to create a filesystem, but I dont have a copy of
> the right utility (newfs?).
> 
> Can you point me to source?

I'll pass this to the mailing list to see if others can help you.
I'd say that Linux is unlikely to construct the correct filesystem type.
There are severl UFS variants, and you'd need to know the exact layout
details to be sure that Linux (or something else) could create the
boot disks.

	Warren

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Tuesday,  1 October 2002 at  7:37:35 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Ian Molton:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Dunno if you can help me ont this...
>>
>> I have an unusual UNIX derived OS called RISCiX, but I cant install it
>> because I have no bootdisks.
>>
>> I /do/ have scripts to make them, and the kernel + OS files, though.
>>
>> I think the filesystem was UFS.
>>
>> I can use my Linux box to create a filesystem, but I dont have a copy of
>> the right utility (newfs?).
>>
>> Can you point me to source?
>
> I'll pass this to the mailing list to see if others can help you.
> I'd say that Linux is unlikely to construct the correct filesystem type.
> There are severl UFS variants, and you'd need to know the exact layout
> details to be sure that Linux (or something else) could create the
> boot disks.

On Tuesday,  1 October 2002 at  9:39:04 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> Thanks.
>
> I found some ufs code in the HURD source, and VERY crudely hacked it. It
> creates filesystems that linux can mount, but it crashed trying to write
> big files to it (doh!)

Well, it would be nice to know what you're really trying to do.
What's the hardware?  If the file system is UFS, it's unlikely to be a
good fit for Linux.  I'd say "try FreeBSD", but without knowing more
about your software and hardware, it's not clear if that would be any
better.  Google suggests that it runs on ARMs.  Is that correct?

> any advice from the list would be appreciated :)

In that case you should copy us.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Ian Molton]

On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:29:02 +0930
"Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> Well, it would be nice to know what you're really trying to do.
> What's the hardware?  If the file system is UFS, it's unlikely to be a
> good fit for Linux.  I'd say "try FreeBSD", but without knowing more
> about your software and hardware, it's not clear if that would be any
> better.  Google suggests that it runs on ARMs.  Is that correct?

The hardware is an obscure british platform from back when the ARM was
young. - The Archimedes.

The CPU is the ARM2 or 3 (either work) and the systems have SCSI,
ethernet, and (up to) 16Mb of RAM.

I dont actually know what the filesystem is, but my guess is UFS based
on the newfs command in the mkkernel script, and a rumour it is BSD
derived.

I have everything from a machines filesystem in a tarball.

I simply have no bootdisk, and cant create one without a suitable newfs
 
> > any advice from the list would be appreciated :)
> 
> In that case you should copy us.

Done. whats the subscribe address, btw?

Well, heres the mkkernel and other scripts (attached).

is it possible for someone else to make a filesystem image for me that I
could dd onto a floppy? I suspect that this system uses an old variant
of ufs.

the system is little-endian, if that helps?

I just had an evil thought...

one way to get this system up would be to finish my port of ARMlinux to
the Archimedes (naerly done but lots to do still). then write a RISCiX
personality and run RISCiX newfs on armlinux ;-)

No. too evil. I think best to try easier methods first ;-)
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[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Pete Turnbull]

On Oct 1,  1:37, Ian Molton wrote:
>
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:29:02 +0930
> "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, it would be nice to know what you're really trying to do.
> > What's the hardware?  If the file system is UFS, it's unlikely to be a
> > good fit for Linux.  I'd say "try FreeBSD", but without knowing more
> > about your software and hardware, it's not clear if that would be any
> > better.  Google suggests that it runs on ARMs.  Is that correct?
>
> The hardware is an obscure british platform from back when the ARM was
> young. - The Archimedes.
>
> The CPU is the ARM2 or 3 (either work) and the systems have SCSI,
> ethernet, and (up to) 16Mb of RAM.
>
> I dont actually know what the filesystem is, but my guess is UFS based
> on the newfs command in the mkkernel script, and a rumour it is BSD
> derived.

It is indeed a straight port of BSD 4.x, where x depends in whether is it's
RISC iX 1 or 1.2 (R440 used 4.2, I think; R260 used 4.3).

> I have everything from a machines filesystem in a tarball.
>
> I simply have no bootdisk, and cant create one without a suitable newfs
>
> > > any advice from the list would be appreciated :)

Take a look at James Carter's page at
http://www.jfc.org.uk/documents/riscix_clone.html

James and I worked this out when we rescued half-a-dozen R260's in various
states of disrepair and with various not-quite-complete copies of RISC iX.

> is it possible for someone else to make a filesystem image for me that I
> could dd onto a floppy? I suspect that this system uses an old variant
> of ufs.

It is a standard 4.3 filesystem (at least for the verison for an R260).  It
even says so when it boots:

RISC iX Release 1.2
ARM3 processor, cache enabled
...
...
Root fstype 4.3, name /dev/sd0a
Swap fstype spec, name /dev/sd0S
...


One of us could copy some stuff for you.  I'm not sure you'd be able to get
what you need onto a single floppy, though.  That's not how Acorn did it.

We'd certainly be willing to help, especially if you have any RISC iX stuff
we're missing.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Ian Molton]

On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:29:56 GMT
pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) wrote:

> > I dont actually know what the filesystem is, but my guess is UFS
> > based on the newfs command in the mkkernel script, and a rumour it
> > is BSD derived.
> 
> It is indeed a straight port of BSD 4.x, where x depends in whether is
> it's RISC iX 1 or 1.2 (R440 used 4.2, I think; R260 used 4.3).

was the only difference between 1 and 1.2 the kernel?

> > I have everything from a machines filesystem in a tarball.
> >
> > I simply have no bootdisk, and cant create one without a suitable
> > newfs
> >
> > > > any advice from the list would be appreciated :)
> 
> Take a look at James Carter's page at
> http://www.jfc.org.uk/documents/riscix_clone.html

wont I need a working installation first?

> > is it possible for someone else to make a filesystem image for me
> > that I could dd onto a floppy? I suspect that this system uses an
> > old variant of ufs.
> 
> It is a standard 4.3 filesystem (at least for the verison for an
> R260).  It even says so when it boots:

Thats good to know - linux can actually write to that (although attempts
so far have led to kernel panics!)

Do you know of generic source for mkfs ?
 
> One of us could copy some stuff for you.  I'm not sure you'd be able
> to get what you need onto a single floppy, though.  That's not how
> Acorn did it.

did you see the scripts I attached?

Apparently the create 3 floppies, which can be used to install a system.

> We'd certainly be willing to help, especially if you have any RISC iX
> stuff we're missing.

You're certainly welcome to any stuff I have.

Id be eternally grateful if you could run those 3 scripts on a riscix
machine though (even better if you could use a disc image - can risciX
do loopback mounted filesystems?)

once you have 3 floppies [which can be imaged], or 3 disc images, could
you email them to me?

[TUHS] Re: Making boot disks

[Pete Turnbull]

On Oct 1, 10:16, Ian Molton wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:29:56 GMT
> pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) wrote:

> > It is indeed a straight port of BSD 4.x, where x depends in whether is
> > it's RISC iX 1 or 1.2 (R440 used 4.2, I think; R260 used 4.3).
>
> was the only difference between 1 and 1.2 the kernel?

I think other things were updated as well, in line with differenet versions
of BSD, but I don't have any sort of definitive list.

> > Take a look at James Carter's page at
> > http://www.jfc.org.uk/documents/riscix_clone.html
>
> wont I need a working installation first?

To clone a disk, yes, you need to start with a good disk :-)

> > > is it possible for someone else to make a filesystem image for me
> > > that I could dd onto a floppy? I suspect that this system uses an
> > > old variant of ufs.
> >
> > It is a standard 4.3 filesystem (at least for the verison for an
> > R260).  It even says so when it boots:
>
> Thats good to know - linux can actually write to that (although attempts
> so far have led to kernel panics!)
>
> Do you know of generic source for mkfs ?

Linux source, especially early versions, or a full BSD 4.x distribution, eg
from the PUPS archive?

> > One of us could copy some stuff for you.  I'm not sure you'd be able
> > to get what you need onto a single floppy, though.  That's not how
> > Acorn did it.
>
> did you see the scripts I attached?
>
> Apparently the create 3 floppies, which can be used to install a system.

I've looked at the scripts (sorry, didn't have time yesterday).  They're
not Acorn's.  They were created by Granada Microcare's Field Service
division when they had to upgrade R140 versions of RISC iX -- 1.13 was a
bugfix release.

They should work, providing the versions of the kernel and other files in
my version will fit on a floppy.  I'm not sure how best to get your tar
file back though; it doesn't look like the minimal system has NFS support.
 You ought be able to do it if you had a spare hard drive, put the tar file
on it, and mount it under /mnt.  Modify the tar command in cpsys so it
doesn't overwrite /mnt, like James and I did.

dsplit is just a utility (written by Acorn?) to split a big file over
several floppies, or extract it again (like bsplit, but probably with
different markers).

> can risciX do loopback mounted filesystems?)

No.  That's a linux invention.  But I can probably create the floppies for
you, when I have time to move my R260 to somewhere I can use it -- probably
not this weekend, maybe the weekend after.

What machine have you got?  R140, R260, or something else?  Is it the same
type as the filesystem you copied came from?

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York