[TUHS] Booting v6

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Carl Lowenstein]

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:53:26 +0100
> Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Booting v6
> Thread-Index: AcQcYq8V+wOYWKxXRAqhjHttR6C44gAJhvuw
> From: "Wells, Richard" <rwells at impaq.co.uk>
> To: "Lars Brinkhoff" <lars at nocrew.org>
> 
> IMHO it's very good reading / learning.
> 
> I couldn't buy the book when I last tried (about a year ago) - I think
> it was out of print.. I did manage to find it all on the web though.
> 
> Richard Wells
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Brinkhoff [mailto:lars at nocrew.org] 
> Sent: 07 April 2004 06:32
> To: Carl Lowenstein
> Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6
> 
> Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu> writes:
> > > From: "Ian King" <iking at windows.microsoft.com>
> > > 
> > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively -
> is
> > > available for legal purchase.  I have both the published version and
> > > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy.  
> > Me too, as they say.  I did the bootleg photocopying myself.
> 
> Is it still good reading?

It was last time I looked.  Today I seem to have misplaced my copy.
Just checked AddAll book search, the reprint of the Lions book has
become a rare collectable, and is selling for about $100.  Oh, well,
somebody bid a VT100 up to $355 yesterday.

    carl

[TUHS] Booting v6

[M. Warner Losh]

In message: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404071153290.26120-100000 at gladen>
            Andru Luvisi <luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu> writes:
: Some people mentioned it being out of print.  I was wondering, has anyone
: tried purchasing it from
: 
:     http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html
: 
: They don't seem to have any indication on the web site that it is out of
: print, and they have a link to it from their home page
: (http://www.peer-to-peer.com/).

it was out of print for a while, but was republished a few years
ago...  I have both copies and can tell you that the republished
version is true to the original.

Warner

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Andru Luvisi]

Some people mentioned it being out of print.  I was wondering, has anyone
tried purchasing it from

    http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html

They don't seem to have any indication on the web site that it is out of
print, and they have a link to it from their home page
(http://www.peer-to-peer.com/).

Andru
-- 
Andru Luvisi

Quote Of The Moment:
  "Taking the envelope and pencil in his otherwise empty hands, the
  medium feels it, stares into space, grunts, foams at the mouth, and
  otherwise becomes very psychic."
  	- Theodore Annemann

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Eric Wayte]

I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them.  They
suggested I try used book web pages.  There is a copy available on
half.com as of this writing for around $100.

Eric Wayte
Sr. DBA
Univ. of Central Florida
ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu


On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Andru Luvisi wrote:

>
> Some people mentioned it being out of print.  I was wondering, has anyone
> tried purchasing it from
>
>     http://www.peer-to-peer.com/catalog/opsrc/lions.html
>

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Mirian Crzig Lennox]

ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes:
> I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them.  They
> suggested I try used book web pages.  There is a copy available on
> half.com as of this writing for around $100.

Wow.

Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)

cheers,
Mirian

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 18:35:02 -0400, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
> ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes:
>> I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them.  They
>> suggested I try used book web pages.  There is a copy available on
>> half.com as of this writing for around $100.
>
> Wow.
>
> Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)

Somewhere I had a TeX source file of it that went round
alt.folklore.computers about ten years ago.  I took a brief look
yesterday but couldn't find it.  If I try harder, there's a good
chance that I will.  Would anybody be interested?

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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[TUHS] Booting v6

[Tim Shoppa]

[Lions book]
> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)

Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
given the comments that came with the readme.

Tim.

[TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> [Lions book]
>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)
>
> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
> 1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
> given the comments that came with the readme.

Yes, that's the one I got.  From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes"
and it was uuencoded or some such.  Strangely, not many people got it.

Do you still have the text?  I haven't found mine yet, but a number of
people have expressed interest.

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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[TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

[Maciek Bieszczad]

You can download PostScript and PDF versions of the Lions book here:

http://morris.xsdeny.net/data/docs/unix/lionc.ps
http://morris.xsdeny.net/data/docs/unix/lionc.pdf

You can also view Google's rendition here:

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~epaulson/lionc
.ps

In my opinion, the LaTeX version would still be interesting. The
previously mentioned files themselves were probably produced from that
source.

[TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

[Peter Jeremy]

On 2004-Apr-14 09:46:25 +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>> [Lions book]
>>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)
>>
>> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
>> 1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
>> given the comments that came with the readme.
>
>Yes, that's the one I got.  From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes"
>and it was uuencoded or some such.  Strangely, not many people got it.

Google agrees that the subject was "Leo's notes" and it was posted in
7 uuencoded parts in mid-June 1994.  Unfortunately, Google doesn't
appear to have kept a copy of the posting (just the whinges about the
size).

I don't remember seeing it (I don't think I looked at AFC very often then)
and don't seem to have a copy.  I'd also be interested if anyone still
has a copy.

-- 
Peter Jeremy

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Kurt Wall]

In a 1.6K blaze of typing glory, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 18:35:02 -0400, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
> > ewayte at pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Eric Wayte) writes:
> >> I tried a few months ago and it is no longer available from them.  They
> >> suggested I try used book web pages.  There is a copy available on
> >> half.com as of this writing for around $100.
> >
> > Wow.
> >
> > Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)
> 
> Somewhere I had a TeX source file of it that went round
> alt.folklore.computers about ten years ago.  I took a brief look
> yesterday but couldn't find it.  If I try harder, there's a good
> chance that I will.  Would anybody be interested?

Yup.

Kurt
-- 
For 20 dollars, I'll give you a good fortune next time ...

[TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Wednesday, 14 April 2004 at 11:16:26 +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> On 2004-Apr-14 09:46:25 +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 13 April 2004 at 20:06:43 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>>> [Lions book]
>>>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)
>>>
>>> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
>>> 1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
>>> given the comments that came with the readme.
>>
>> Yes, that's the one I got.  From memory, the subject was "Leo's notes"
>> and it was uuencoded or some such.  Strangely, not many people got it.
>
> Google agrees that the subject was "Leo's notes" and it was posted in
> 7 uuencoded parts in mid-June 1994.

I didn't recall that it was that many.  Unfortunately, I didn't retain
the original articles.  Google appears to be wrong about the date,
though: my copy is dated May 19, 1994.

> I don't remember seeing it (I don't think I looked at AFC very often
> then) and don't seem to have a copy.  I'd also be interested if
> anyone still has a copy.

Yes, I've found it now and put it up in multiple formats at
http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/.  Enjoy!

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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[TUHS] Booting v6

[Mirian Crzig Lennox]

shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes:
> [Lions book]
>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again...  :)
>
> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
> 1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
> given the comments that came with the readme.

I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of
dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary.

(No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in
the content, not the typography.)

cheers,
Mirian

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Michael Davidson]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" <list-tuhs@cosmic.com>
>
> I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of
> dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary.
>
> (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in
> the content, not the typography.)
>

When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I think
that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that was used.

According to the 'Acknowledgements' in Lions:

 'The co-operation of the "nroff" program must also be mentioned.
  Without it, these notes could never have been produced in this form.
  However it has yielded some of its more enigmatic secrets so reluctantly,
  that the author's gratitude is indeed mixed. Certainly "nroff" itself must
  provide a fertile field for future practitioners of the program
ducumenter's art.'

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Mirian Crzig Lennox]

michael_davidson at pacbell.net ("Michael Davidson") writes:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" <list-tuhs at cosmic.com>
>>
>> I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of
>> dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary.
>>
>> (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly all in
>> the content, not the typography.)
>
> When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I think
> that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that was used.

Not at all; "typewritten" means "written with type": fixed-width,
metal impact type on bars or wheels.  Surely I can't be the only
person on this list who remembers when hardcopy terminals were often
called "typewriters".

cheers,
Mirian

[TUHS] Booting v6

[Gregg C Levine]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2088 bytes --]

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Actually, no your not. I do. Even though my contacts with computer
technology was rather limited, until about thirty odd years ago, and
on and off, during the eighties. For example, a shop that my father
ran, which did typesetting, used a pair of teletypes to communicate
with the host. (Host wasn't a DEC system, he was a related unit.)

And surprisingly enough, one of their customers was AT&T, they sent
over a manuscript they were having problems setting using the exact
same methods being discussed here. 

My copy of the C manual, that all of us know who wrote, says it was
done that way as well.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> Behalf Of Mirian Crzig Lennox
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:21 PM
> To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6
> 
> michael_davidson at pacbell.net ("Michael Davidson") writes:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mirian Crzig Lennox" <list-tuhs at cosmic.com>
> >>
> >> I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript
of
> >> dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary.
> >>
> >> (No offence at all intended to Dr Lions; the genius was clearly
all in
> >> the content, not the typography.)
> >
> > When you describe the notes as having been "roughly-typewritten" I
think
> > that you may have been misled by the quality of the printer that
was used.
> 
> Not at all; "typewritten" means "written with type": fixed-width,
> metal impact type on bars or wheels.  Surely I can't be the only
> person on this list who remembers when hardcopy terminals were often
> called "typewriters".
> 
> cheers,
> Mirian
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] Re: Lions' book

[Warren Toomey]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:06:43PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> [Lions book]
> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa
> 1994.  I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand
> given the comments that came with the readme.
> Tim.

I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives
in Australia.

8-)
	Warren

P.S Back from Easter, still catching up with the list.

[TUHS] Re: Lions' book

[Warren Toomey]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:06:43PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>>> Latex source to the Lions book was posted to alt.folklore.computers
>>> circa 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand.

On 2004-Apr-15 07:58:45 +1000, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
>>I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives
>>in Australia.
 
On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:18:45AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote:
>That would rule out John since he no longer lives in Australia.

True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in
Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is
also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He
regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John
Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the
act.

	Warren

[TUHS] Re: Lions' book

[Norman Wilson]

I can cite a third edition that existed inside Bell Labs
at one point: white covers, with the latter-day AT&T Bell
Laboratories name and deathstar logo; AT&T BELL LABORATORIES
PROPRIETARY (RESTRICTED) printed across the bottom of every
page.  The title page also says Use pursuant to G.E.I. 2.2.
Instead of `this document may contain information covered by
one or more licenses,' there is a paragraph declaring that
`This document is restricted to authorized AT&T employees who
have a job-related need to know, and holders of a license for
the UNIX* Operating System, Level Six, from AT&T Technologies,
Inc., subject to the restrictions stated in such license.'

And of course the footnote credits the trademark to AT&T Bell
Laboratories.

The use of the deathstar and the modern company name suggest
these were printed post-divestiture, i.e. no earlier than 1984.

Andrew Hume came across a few copies of this edition sametime in
the late 1980s.  I think they came from a load of stuff about to
be thrown out by Judy Macor, who used to be the person who handled
license paperwork and sent out tapes.

For some reason my copy has a paper clip on the page where
`You are not expected to understand this' appears.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

[TUHS] Re: Lions' book

[dmr]

Bibliographic notes: It appears that the version of
the commentary that appeared on Usenet and has
been transformed variously is just the notes.
So far as I can tell, it's an accurate rendition of them.

There were ~2 original versions of the two-volume
work (the source and the commentary).  The two
versions are--

Those produced at UNSW: the one I have are in red
(source) and orange (commentary) covers.  There
might have been more than one printing of this.
The commentary was probably done on some nice terminal
like the Diablo daisy-wheel.  The source was rendered on
a dot-matrix terminal.

The second version was done within AT&T/WECo for internal
use, and could also be ordered by licensees--perhaps it was even
included with a tape.  Salus says these were no longer available by 1978.
These have pale blue covers.  The contents
were, I believe, a photocopy of one of the UNSW renditions.

The Peer-to-Peer edition (1996) is probably a photocopy of
an AT&T version; it contains various labels that doubtless would
have been in them.  But they could have been stripped in
from tape labels or somewhere.  Perhaps Berny Goodheart
would know about this part of the production process.
The UNSW version I have has, on its title page for the source
book, a paragraph that says "This document may contain
information covered by one or more licenses...." and is noted
by Lions as issued in June, 1977.

The PtoP version of this page is in a different font, and has a splash label
in printer font "This information is proprietary and is the
property of Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc...."
It's noted by Lions as of November 1977,  and marked
"second printing."

It would be nice to cajole PtoP into reprinting, although
the combination of the TUHS V6 sources and the various
renditions of the commentary contain most of the
information (though without the heartfelt encomia).

	Dennis