* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 10:34 ` Wesley Parish
@ 2007-11-02 11:35 ` Robert Tillyard
2007-11-02 12:03 ` Robert Tillyard
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Tillyard @ 2007-11-02 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
> To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with
> details
> on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have
> been a
> PDP-11.)
>
> Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
> textbook I
> think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an
> updated
> PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for
> anyone with a
> soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
>
> I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> one fell
> swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
> and
> available PDP-11 in the UK.
>
> Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
>
> Wesley Parish
>
> On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super)
>> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
>> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
>> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
>>
>> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
>> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
>> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
>> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
>> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
>>
>> So I guess I have two questions:
>>
>> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
>> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
>> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
>> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
>> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
>> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
>> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
>>
>> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
>> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
>> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
>> get that way.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --tim
>>
> --
> Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
> -----
> Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
> impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
> warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
> Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
> of the foolish.
> -----
> Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
> You ask, what is the most important thing?
> Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
> I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 10:34 ` Wesley Parish
2007-11-02 11:35 ` Robert Tillyard
@ 2007-11-02 12:03 ` Robert Tillyard
2007-11-02 13:38 ` Tim Bradshaw
2007-11-02 13:42 ` Brantley Coile
3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert Tillyard @ 2007-11-02 12:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
Sorry my previous message seemed to be missing the text that I wanted
to send... see below...
I have what I believe is a PDP 11/23 in a cabinet with two RL02
drives. I rescued it from a company who were just going to skip it in
the 90's. I've never used it and don't have an OS for it but the
company had been using it up until the day the that I rescued it.
The machine is located in Bury St. Edmunds in Suffolk. If someone can
put this to good use then they can have it. I'll post a picture of it
up somewhere tonight to help identify it. I think it may have some
schematics with it as well.
Regards, Rob.
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
> To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with
> details
> on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have
> been a
> PDP-11.)
>
> Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
> textbook I
> think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an
> updated
> PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for
> anyone with a
> soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
>
> I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> one fell
> swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
> and
> available PDP-11 in the UK.
>
> Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
>
> Wesley Parish
>
> On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super)
>> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
>> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
>> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
>>
>> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
>> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
>> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
>> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
>> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
>>
>> So I guess I have two questions:
>>
>> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
>> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
>> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
>> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
>> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
>> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
>> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
>>
>> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
>> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
>> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
>> get that way.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --tim
>> _______________________________________________
>> PUPS mailing list
>> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> --
> Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
> -----
> Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
> impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
> warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
> Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
> of the foolish.
> -----
> Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
> You ask, what is the most important thing?
> Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
> I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 10:34 ` Wesley Parish
2007-11-02 11:35 ` Robert Tillyard
2007-11-02 12:03 ` Robert Tillyard
@ 2007-11-02 13:38 ` Tim Bradshaw
2007-11-02 14:15 ` Gregg Levine
2007-11-02 13:42 ` Brantley Coile
3 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Tim Bradshaw @ 2007-11-02 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
> I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> one fell
> swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
> working and
> available PDP-11 in the UK.
It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
or computer, because it's vintage.
--tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
replica...)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 13:38 ` Tim Bradshaw
@ 2007-11-02 14:15 ` Gregg Levine
2007-11-02 16:28 ` Carl Lowenstein
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregg Levine @ 2007-11-02 14:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb at tfeb.org> wrote:
> On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> > one fell
> > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
> > working and
> > available PDP-11 in the UK.
>
> It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
> making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
> fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
> existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
> or computer, because it's vintage.
>
> --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
> replica...)
Hello!
There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best.
--
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 14:15 ` Gregg Levine
@ 2007-11-02 16:28 ` Carl Lowenstein
2007-11-02 23:52 ` Gregg Levine
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Carl Lowenstein @ 2007-11-02 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb at tfeb.org> wrote:
> > On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
> >
> > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> > > one fell
> > > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
> > > working and
> > > available PDP-11 in the UK.
> >
> > It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
> > making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
> > fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
> > existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
> > or computer, because it's vintage.
> >
> > --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
> > replica...)
>
> Hello!
> There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
> have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
> MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best.
Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_?
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/28p6am>
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenstein at ucsd.edu
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 16:28 ` Carl Lowenstein
@ 2007-11-02 23:52 ` Gregg Levine
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregg Levine @ 2007-11-02 23:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 11/2/07, Carl Lowenstein <carl.lowenstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb at tfeb.org> wrote:
> > > On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
> > > > one fell
> > > > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
> > > > working and
> > > > available PDP-11 in the UK.
> > >
> > > It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
> > > making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
> > > fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
> > > existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
> > > or computer, because it's vintage.
> > >
> > > --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
> > > replica...)
> >
> > Hello!
> > There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
> > have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
> > MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best.
>
> Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_?
>
> <http://preview.tinyurl.com/28p6am>
>
> carl
> --
> carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
> clowenstein at ucsd.edu
>
Hello!
Actually yes! That is the book I was trying to think of this morning.
I even came very close to building the thing, but ran out of time
trying to find the parts, let alone the actual time needed to build
the thing.
Since their ideas are good ones for what I do, I'll probably buy the
book via that method from Amazon, in addition to a few trillion
others.
--
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 10:34 ` Wesley Parish
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2007-11-02 13:38 ` Tim Bradshaw
@ 2007-11-02 13:42 ` Brantley Coile
2007-11-03 7:58 ` Wesley Parish
3 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Brantley Coile @ 2007-11-02 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
Wes,
Is this the book you are thinking of?
http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html
> To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with details
> on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have been a
> PDP-11.)
>
> Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University textbook I
> think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an updated
> PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for anyone with a
> soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
>
> I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one fell
> swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working and
> available PDP-11 in the UK.
>
> Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
>
> Wesley Parish
>
> On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super)
>> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
>> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
>> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
>>
>> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
>> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
>> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
>> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
>> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
>>
>> So I guess I have two questions:
>>
>> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
>> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
>> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
>> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
>> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
>> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
>> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
>>
>> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
>> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
>> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
>> get that way.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --tim
>> _______________________________________________
>> PUPS mailing list
>> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> --
> Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
> -----
> Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
> impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
> warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
> Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
> of the foolish.
> -----
> Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
> You ask, what is the most important thing?
> Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
> I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK
2007-11-02 13:42 ` Brantley Coile
@ 2007-11-03 7:58 ` Wesley Parish
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Wesley Parish @ 2007-11-03 7:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Saturday 03 November 2007 02:42, Brantley Coile wrote:
> Wes,
> Is this the book you are thinking of?
>
> http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html
Yes, thanks!
Wesley Parish
>
> > To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with
> > details on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even
> > have been a PDP-11.)
> >
> > Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
> > textbook I think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone
> > have an updated PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to
> > PUPS for anyone with a soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
> >
> > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one
> > fell swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
> > and available PDP-11 in the UK.
> >
> > Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
> >
> > Wesley Parish
> >
> > On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> >> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super)
> >> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
> >> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
> >> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
> >>
> >> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
> >> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
> >> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
> >> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
> >> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
> >>
> >> So I guess I have two questions:
> >>
> >> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
> >> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
> >> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
> >> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
> >> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
> >> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
> >> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
> >>
> >> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
> >> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
> >> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
> >> get that way.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> --tim
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PUPS mailing list
> >> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > --
> > Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
> > -----
> > Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
> > impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
> > warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
> > Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
> > of the foolish.
> > -----
> > Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
> > You ask, what is the most important thing?
> > Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
> > I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread